View source for Balkans/Meetings/21-11-2011/logs

AleksandarS	ok as you may se in etherpad there is agenda
	AleksandarS	it is covering a lot of topics
	AleksandarS	(small amount of topics but with huge points )
	elnino_slo	ok let's kickstart!
	AleksandarS	ok now question for everyone because this is writing meeting do you ale have read my mozcamp raport?
	fredy	yes
	gentt	yes
	AleksandarS	Yes / no so I know should I paste it again here
	Nikola	yes
	ioanachiorean|home	yesl
	elnino_slo	Yes
	altin	yes
	ioanachiorean|home	but you can always link that also to the notes
	gentt	paste it in another etherpad if you want, don't flood the channel
	ioanachiorean|home	for offline readers
	AleksandarS	ok it will be in notes
	|<--	GeorgeF has left moznet (Client exited)
	AleksandarS	ok I pasted major part of email
	AleksandarS	so you all could it read
	AleksandarS	please go fast over it and thing
	AleksandarS	ok we already have one question
	AleksandarS	1. Rapid releases blocking Balkans efforts? What exactly is blocked?
	AleksandarS	ok these rapid releases are bloking marketing campaigns so we dont have firefox release parties any more and l10n team need
	AleksandarS	to speed up with translating
	elnino_slo	i think that's the case..
	mathjazz	I suggest we organize Firefox birthday parties once a year instead
	AleksandarS	yeay great idea
	smo	why not a release party every six weeks - and Im not kidding -
	fredy	^^good idea
	elnino_slo	In slovenia we are still organzing parties..
	Nikola	Good idea, but also, if you have enough people, time and will, you can organize Release parties too
	smo	- or every odd or even release;\
	ioanachiorean|home	and we could also run for round numbers or at a major changes
	Nikola	as we plan here in croatia
	fredy	smo: you ve got a point
	AleksandarS	what you thing about celebrating every 10th version 10 20 30 .. ?
	ioanachiorean|home	minimum
	Nikola	for how long will that rapid releases last?
	elnino_slo	once a year is my suggestion
	ioanachiorean|home	I will think for example at 11 when NAtive will be launch for mobile, which is a major change we should have something prepared
	mathjazz	AleksandarS: there will be 9 releases every year so it's pretty much the same frequency as birthday parties
	smo	@Nikola - rapid release cycle is here to stay
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	RaulM	agreed for once a year
	ioanachiorean|home	as minimum
	ioanachiorean|home	not maximum
	ioanachiorean|home	right?
	Nikola	also, number of version will be removed from firefox, all you will be able to see if you have newest update or not
	ioanachiorean|home	exactly
	AleksandarS	ok so we will mainly use this idea to organize once a year firefox birthday party balkan wide ?
	mathjazz	ok
	ioanachiorean|home	we'll celebrate major features
	ioanachiorean|home	ok
	elnino_slo	Alekandar let'ss vote..
	fredy	but firefox parties gather people so I think is better to have them more usually
	ioanachiorean|home	fredy I think this oncce a year
	mathjazz	elnino_slo: vote on what?
	elnino_slo	Who's for once a year? (vote)
	AleksandarS	of course every community could have more than one but for balkans only one ? start voting 1 = one 2= more
	ioanachiorean|home	is for balkans wide party
	ioanachiorean|home	communities can make more than one
	Nikola	... and find some other special thematics, something else that is not release party, fredy
	fredy	I see
	elnino_slo	1
	mathjazz	guys, every community should decide when is the best time to hold a party, I'm not sure we want to have Balkans rule on that one
	smo	I abstain
	gentt	We can make events like every 2-3 months
	ioanachiorean|home	mathjazz this one is for all balkans /same time.. communities cam make more in their countries
	gentt	it doesn't have to be for the release party especially but for Firefox
	Nikola	mathjazz, agree with that. I'm also not sure how to organize something that "small" everywhere in Balkans at the same time
	gentt	in general
	gentt	and we mention the release and features of that time during that event
	AleksandarS	ok vote no 2: 1= only one , 2= more than one , 3 = not to be conected with balkans
	gentt	because having 9 releases per year
	gentt	the year has 12 months
	gentt	overhelming
	gentt	a event every 2-3 months
	elnino_slo	during the recession we need to minimize the parties
	Nikola	3
	gentt	is fine
	AleksandarS	please vote
	gentt	what are we voting?
	smo	It is every community to its own situation. We make it sound like Firefox Next release it the big Kahoona.
	AleksandarS	please follow meeting ! vote no 2: 1= only one , 2= more than one , 3 = not to be conected with balkans
	elnino_slo	1
	Nikola	3
	smo	There is enough news to keep things moving.
	fredy	1
	gentt	1
	ioanachiorean|home	1
	AleksandarS	10 sec more to vote
	smo	3
	gentt	and ......
	AleksandarS	done
	AleksandarS	voting is done
	mathjazz	I see Balkans community as a great resource for collecting ideas not directly telling communities how many parties to hold, so I don't see the point in voting for this one
	|<--	GeorgeF has left moznet (Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish)
	smo	mathajzz +1
	gentt	+
	gentt	+1 for mathjazz
	AleksandarS	4 votes for first , and 2 for third
	AleksandarS	and we will disscus about this more later (maybe next month or so)
	RaulM	1
	smo	I understand vote 1 as "only one, or less"
	AleksandarS	ok now what you think how to get balkans back please write short ideas and first put your name on etherpad and when I ping you than write your idea and
	smo	without our subjects, specific to Balkans it is a questionable proposition...
	AleksandarS	all other sould be reading that idea and every idea will have 2 or more minutes for disscusion
	AleksandarS	smo go aead and write your idea here
	RaulM	where?
	ioanachiorean|home	RaulmM from etherpad to IRC
	AleksandarS	ok smo but what is your idea
	AleksandarS	how we coud start
	AleksandarS	?
	RaulM	this link not working: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/mozbalkans-call-21-11-11-
	ioanachiorean|home	for me it does ...hmm
	elnino_slo	it works
	AleksandarS	https://etherpad.mozilla.org/mozbalkans-call-21-11-11- it works if you add a minus at the end
	RaulM	
	AleksandarS	ok smo it seems you don't have any idea
	ioanachiorean|home	his link had minus
	elnino_slo	I think that smo wants to help other communities (localization)
	RaulM	https://etherpad.mozilla.org/mozbalkans-call-21-11-11-
	AleksandarS	ok but I see only questions that will be in my meeting notes
	RaulM	hmm, minus at the end
	AleksandarS	ok anyone wants to coment this ?
	AleksandarS	what some wrote on etherpad
	Nikola	dont see how can one countrys localizators help other countrys
	ioanachiorean|home	maybe it will be great to have a status for each country or even to see how each country does the locaalization
	AleksandarS	what we should do for this l10n team if we have these results https://wiki.mozilla.org/Balkans/Localization
	Nikola	there is, you can also check, for example, verbatim and similar
	Nikola	mathjazz, maybe you could answer on this?
	smo	see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Balkans/Localization
	Nikola	you have your hands on localization
	elnino_slo	Guys and girls.. come on let's give some ideas or comment.
	ioanachiorean|home	nikola I was reffering to have improvements and tricks updates , not procents of the tranlations
	smo	check https://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Balkans/Localization&action=history - even this has not been done
	AleksandarS	ok we made decission on our round-table in berlin to have community helpers persons that wil help other communities in some jobs or better to say procideures like l10n , sites and others
	smo	we have Narro author(s) on Balkans etc ... there's a lot one could do for each other
	Nikola	that was one of my questions. You have those people working that job in mozilla. Why assembling people from local community for that same purpose?
	AleksandarS	for expl. what ?
	Nikola	I also read there in that summary that there should be some community sites helper
	AleksandarS	above wuestion is for smo
	AleksandarS	ok smo seems a little lazy so we are going on
	smo	if they are helping (and Milos is AAA) no problem ... but look at the history of l10n Balkans ... and we are all trying to help
	Nikola	I have great experience and i got great support from people working for Mozilla. I don't see the point for having "helpers"/coordinators/however you want to call them just for balkans region. this is something that is the same here as it is in other parts of world
	mathjazz	Nikola: what exactly would you like me to answer?
	gentt	Nikola: sometimes they are busy and simply can't help you
	Nikola	mathjazz, i think we went over it and possibly solved it. About localization, there were some questions
	gentt	Anyway
	AleksandarS	yes they are helping whole world and we need to have our local that are always in same time zone
	AleksandarS	and can answer our question on time
	gentt	Guys we need to have a more constructive meeting, we are talking some things that we discussed 1 year ago.
	mathjazz	I agree with Nikola, we already have l10n and sumo and marketing SIGs, mailing list, IRC channels
	elnino_slo	I think that "old" localizers can give some advice (tools, etc..)
	gentt	Our main mission right now is to get Balkans back in track
	AleksandarS	yes gentt I know but we are Balkans
	AleksandarS	yes
	gentt	I knowwe can change that
	Nikola	gentt, yeah, they are all busy. They solve smaller issues and questions pretty quick, and bigger important more slowly. Take that in mind, you will bump on the same problem because those people will be at the end, again contact those slow people to do big things. And if you consider that, you just put another person in the way
	AleksandarS	ok I must go over this topic so stop writing about it please
	AleksandarS	Ioana comentted this [Ioana ]: I think It will be great to know what is everybody using for localization, and if they find out faster procedures or tricks.
	AleksandarS	ok it is cool
	AleksandarS	but we will move to next topic on agenda
	AleksandarS	what is for you most important thing we should do / have in next few months to unfreeze balkans ?
	AleksandarS	more frequently irc (skype) meetings ?
	AleksandarS	more people to join?
	AleksandarS	more frequently to look on statistics of market share ?
	AleksandarS	share your thoughts ?
	ioanachiorean|home	+1 on look over statisticks
	ioanachiorean|home	+ 1 for meetings
	Nikola	strenghten local communities first, educate volunteers (HR/PR/Legal/other), then start thinking about regional plans
	|<--	psmst has left moznet (Client exited)
	fredy	Nikola: +1
	AleksandarS	ok great point nicola
	Nikola	meetings - great, but on IRC, and without last minute changes
	AleksandarS	*nikola
	RaulM	+1 for IRC meeting
	Nikola	Statistics and market share - good idea, try to find a person/more than one that will regulary check it and record it.
	AleksandarS	egh we will discuss about way we make meetings on our mailing list because we really need other way and it is really important for us to have talking meetings and not writing one
	gentt	I am for IRC but not like this meeting
	gentt	we should do it topic by topic
	gentt	I really think we should setup meetbot
	AleksandarS	ok I already have that in my notes
	gentt	So we will have meeting minutes with actions and agreements to keep in mind after the meeting
	Nikola	Just a little bit offtopic: I will send tonight or in a day or two an email to the balkans mailing list about Croatia, what we did (not public projects), and how we work. That structure and behaviour works perfectly for now
	altin	More meetings on IRC > +1 and btw we somehow need new ideas to keep the comunity alive
	mathjazz	Nikola: looking forward!
	fredy	gentt: +1
	altin	something we havent done before
	AleksandarS	ok greate point too it would be great that everyone do same thing
	Nikola	Regarding meetings: organize meeting more in advance. Open ether earlier, so that everybody can THINK and brainstorm about specific topics and subtopics, before realization of meeting. Also practicing in Croatia and everyone work more smoothly with more quality. there are finished great ideas on meeting, not so many thinking and loosing time. try it
	AleksandarS	and please this is call for others to chat about what to have to do in next month done ore to have established very soon (everyone join us in this chat)
	AleksandarS	yep you are right nikola
	AleksandarS	ok now I would ask you to define one thing we shoud do or have in next week as goal ?
	AleksandarS	one thing that we will analysing or doing for week or two
	AleksandarS	what yoou think?
	AleksandarS	maybe redesigning our balkans wiki page?
	Nikola	(not sure what to suggest, really. Again, its much more easier and thoughtful that everybody think of idea or two in advance, present it and then to pick the best of all that good ideas)
	Nikola	Balkans wiki need attention, indeed
	altin	Nikola: is right probably we should have some time to think for an idea then vote the best one and apply it...
	AleksandarS	ok I wrote that down , ( and I also planed for this call to announce everithing before two or even three days but I had problems with the Internet
	AleksandarS	but are you guys / girls angry on me or you ale aren't creative , no inspiration ? ??? strange ???
	mathjazz	nobody is angry at you AleksandarS
	ioanachiorean|home	I am thinking but no great ideas appears
	ioanachiorean|home	+1 mathjazz
	fredy	AleksandarS: not angry with you, I have not much to say as at least here we are trying to orginize and gather more people to our community
	altin	same here ..
	ioanachiorean|home	we all apreciate the effort to make balkans moe active in balkans community
	RaulM	+1 ioanachiorean|home
	AleksandarS	ok what you think on topic redesigning our wiki so it would be better for finding informations like statistics or who is contact person for wich community or what do you think?
	ioanachiorean|home	+1 for each
	ioanachiorean|home	from me
	altin	yap we should do that to.
	Nikola	I agree and are ready to offer help and to contribute, as much as my time will let me. (right now I have three different teams and 4 projects running in Croatia, they all need special attention and "tutoring" :S)
	Nikola	How could we arrange that? Update of balkans wiki, i mean?
	Nikola	anyone still here
	AleksandarS	I think we should do like our ideas and thougts pasted in one other etherpad and after two or three days to start a special team that will do like case study for it what we need and what not
	AleksandarS	I mean this is my proposal only
	gentt	I am here
	AleksandarS	and then create all this like we hade same in remo and others projects because our actually page is not so much good for getting infos about our work, am I right?
	ioanachiorean|home	yes
	|<--	mathjazz has left moznet (Ping timeout)
	Nikola	not 100% what you are suggesting, aleksandars
	AleksandarS	ok I will need to close this meeting because we are losing our participants
	AleksandarS	we will disscuse more on mailing list about this all
	ioanachiorean|home	will u sent an e-mail as a follow up?
	ioanachiorean|home	ok
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	AleksandarS	yep I will send notes and other things too so maybe we start soon our great Balkans project
	RaulM	not losing particpants ...
	altin	im here too
	fredy	me too
	RaulM	ioanachiorean|home: attached this log for romanian community?
	ioanachiorean|home	yes , I will - all conversation?
	RaulM	yes
	AleksandarS	matjazz have pinted a good thing on etherpad
	altin	I see, I was reading it
	mathjazz	I pasted it on IRC but it got rejected
	AleksandarS	great pint and I agree with all that you have wrote
	AleksandarS	*point
	ioanachiorean|home	+1
	Nikola	I have many questions and topics for discussion, but almost all of them must be done in person, hard to do it over chat or something like that. This is why I wanted Balkans Meeting in May
	AleksandarS	but if we arent connected and don't have special jobs or goals balkan wide what we will doing on meet-up events
	ioanachiorean|home	and for questions/ help we can use mailing list
	Nikola	and i still stand behind that, still not dropping on my efforts to get it and organize it
	Nikola	I already did some talk with Brian, Pierros, William and some ReMos about it, we got great reaction and positive feedback, there is a support for that meeting in Zagreb
	ioanachiorean|home	great
	Nikola	We already have some special topics and debates in mind
	AleksandarS	ok that is great but what sessions will be ther if we don't have 6 months anything worked on or no goals in wiki too ?
	Nikola	it would be good to work something until then, but what you are not considering that there are opened questions already
	AleksandarS	but why are these debates closed for others from balkans I mean why didn't you talked about that in mailing list or here on irc
	ioanachiorean|home	1. it can be like at MozCamp - knoledge sharing - presentation
	RaulM	what is your opinion for this: - one owner of the project to be identified to drive project for all communities ?
	mathjazz	ioanachiorean|home: +1
	RaulM	(one of next stept after sofia mozilla balkans)
	Nikola	The post for group were almost ready when Gentt stepped in. And I talked with Council before because there is probably no point in getting everyone delighted about meeting and that in the end they say "no, no way"
	mathjazz	AleksandarS: all three meetups were doe in that fashion more or less
	Nikola	afterall, at that time, i wasnt sure "where to apply" and who to contact
	Nikola	
	Nikola	(that was explained to me later)
	AleksandarS	matjazz I agree
	AleksandarS	RaulM what you think by your question , do you mean on our community steward for 2 months?
	Nikola	also, regarding our balkans, we also wanted to offer you different thematics, workshops, something to learn, something to see, but also discussions, debates, etc etc
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	RaulM	Alexandars:no
	mdupont	hi
	mdupont	sorry i am late
	Nikola	but when initial concept is finished, I will talk with all of you again about that
	elnino_slo	guys this meeting is not going anywhere.
	AleksandarS	ok it is cool but you shoulld do that from start so we all can share our thoughts on particular things because we relized that our main problem is we arent trasparent for everyone
	elnino_slo	and girls
	AleksandarS	elnino I already closed meeting so we are just doing post meeting talks that maight help us
	AleksandarS	*that can help us
	AleksandarS	sorry
	Nikola	OK. I will start two new topics tonight or in the morning: About croatia, structure, work, what is done and what is planned. Second: about Balkans Meeting in Zagreb, some outlines, ideas, etc.
	AleksandarS	ok please do it
	Nikola	have to go soon. It would be great if somebody would be willing to copy rest of conversation and post it somewhere. Or at least send it to me, if nobody else is interersted
	Nikola	
	ioanachiorean|home	ok
	ioanachiorean|home	I will try
	AleksandarS	I will done everithing about sending notes and others
	Nikola	thx a lot
	AleksandarS	Ok but so we don't have anything to do for next week?
	AleksandarS	no one have idea or suggestion , raul had something but nobody commented or explained is it good shoud we have this =
	AleksandarS	*?
	Nikola	what with editing balkans wiki? we dropped that idea? I thought of contacting you about that, if you dont post anything...
	Nikola	now i am confused
	Nikola	anyway, have to go, please send me the rest of discussion. Cya!
	AleksandarS	me too there are participants that come and say something and then they disappear so I canot say it is our global made decission
	[ERROR]	Connection to irc://moznet/ (irc://irc.mozilla.org/) reset. [Help]
	NickServ	Password accepted - you are now recognized.
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	=-=	Topic for #balkans is “Mozilla Balkans Channel | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Balkans | Please take the poll: http://doodle.com/ur9xkmhusfkkxti7”
	=-=	Topic for #balkans was set by Milos on 17. novembar 2011 10:28:30
	AleksandarS	sorry I lost connection
	AleksandarS	I'm back
	ioanachiorean|home	there was nothing added
	ioanachiorean|home	
	Nikola	Me too
	Nikola	but not for long
	Nikola	
	AleksandarS	
	AleksandarS	ok than we will end this meeting for now and I will send you all notes and logs from this meeting and I'm really sead that we didn't make any
	ioanachiorean|home	ok.. we'll wait for the mail
	ioanachiorean|home	and don't be sad
	AleksandarS	big decission or some goal for next week except few ideas that are uncleared jet
	ioanachiorean|home	we might move realy slow
	ioanachiorean|home	but we move
	ioanachiorean|home	and we'll try to make things work better
	AleksandarS	yep ,
	ioanachiorean|home	and the main important thing is that we want to keep balkans
	RaulM	small step, but important step
	RaulM	we are FOUNDERS for next generations
	AleksandarS	I hope in future we will have more participants and I will give my best to make balkans agan really good project because I know that balkans is good place fro newbies to learn more about mozilla and about their local communities I mean regional
	RaulM	
	RaulM	lear about mozilla and FLOSS in generally
	AleksandarS	yep
	RaulM	don't worry
	RaulM	future is Mozilla