View source for Talk:Penelope

== ### Structured Discussion ### ==

(Please edit in place, and keep this concise, non repeating and bullet pointed.  It would be really good to have some feedback from the team.)
[[User:Aberglas|Aberglas]] 01:36, 25 October 2006 (PDT) aberglas

=== General Project Road map, QUALCOMM ===

* What will the relationship between Penelope and Thunderbird actually be?  
** Two heads on the same beast, OR
** Two separate project that share some code, OR
** Add best Eudroa features to Thunderbird (aberglas's prefered option)

* Roughly How long is QUALCOM realistically prepared to pay for this non-profitable project?  (If only for a short time then please do not produce a dead end fork.)
* Is the existing Eudora 6.2 (and/or Eudora 7) codebase being open-sourced or abandoned?

[[User:S1dorner|S1dorner]] 15:43, 25 October 2006 (PDT):

We, the Penelope team, do not control what happens in Thunderbird.  Therefore, we cannot promise to put *anything* *into* Thunderbird.  That's up to Scott.

However, in principle we are much more concerned about happy Eudora users than about promoting the Eudora brand.  The more Eudora features Thunderbird gets, the happier I am.

I simply cannot at this stage answer specific questions about structure of any of the releases.  I don't know.  If it were up to me, there'd be one mailer that was configurable by the user to whatever set of current TBird or Eudora features they liked.  Whether that's called Thunderbird, Eudora, Penelope or Lord John Warfin is immaterial to me.

While any comment I might make about length of funding would be speculative and unwelcome by management, it is not in QUALCOMM's interest to lead anyone into a dead-end fork.

The existing Eudora source is unpleasant, encumbered, and not likely to be released in any wholesale way.  Parts of it may be used, especially when it comes to importers & such, but if anyone is dreaming of hacking away on Eudora 7.1, give it up now.

BTW, my thanks to everyone who has contributed on this talk page, and my apologies for my tardiness in response.

----
[[User:Nick.brown|Nick.brown]] 15:57, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

Eudora v TBird - why not Eudora OR TBird (let the customer choose)?

Ok so I’ve read posts and heard about strategy and observed the ebbing and flowing of the debate. 

Ladies and Gentlemen, we simply have to face the fact that there is a massive Eudora following out there and that following wishes to persist – for reasons that go back many years and through great experience. No product is “perfect” and I have seen many posts for Eudora WIBNIs in the Penelope Project… But we have to face the fact that Eudora pretty good.

The bottom line is (although I hate to say it) that the Penelope Project is not the best way to crack the “Open Eudora” requirement. The only way, in my view, of achieving the “Open Eudora” objective is TO DO PRECISELY THAT and not “fart-about” with Tbird. 

Tbird has its following. Eudora has its following. Both have benefits and problems (clearly Eudora being the better of the two – te he). It is a regret that Qualcomm want to discontinue Eudora but bless them I believe that they have stuck with it a good deal longer than some commercial organisations might – and respect and thanks are due to the Qualcomm board for agreeing to co-opt Qualcomm staff to the Penelope project.

If there are licensing issues to crack within the Eudora Source in migrating to an “Open” offering then perhaps the Penelope effort should be directed to re-writing those bits so that the new code is not licence–infringing (or even do a deal with the copyright owner, even).

My vote therefore for the Penelope project is to make this a genuine task of “Open Eudora” and not actually a bolt-on to Tbird at all.

Controversial maybe but sometimes provocation is constructive and creative.

Nick Brown

=== Joining the project=== 
How do I join the team to develop the new email client? I've got some ideas for development notably a way to link thunderbird and eudora (trademark of Qualcomm)fairly rapidly, so comments and ideas can be sought before development goes ahead, and Eudora becomes Thunderbird. Thats the danger here.

=== Top Eudora Features not in Thunderbird -- System Structure ===

* The fact that attachments are external files, not in the main mailboxes.  (Thunderbird mailboxes quickly become huge and unmanageable.) [Vote for [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359319 359319] if you like this feature.]

* The fact that address books are not restricted to local drives but can be put/referenced on any network share for multi-user benefits (e.g. corporate environment)[Vote for [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359320 359320] if you like this feature]

* For me, being able to have multiple users on one computer that each have their own mailbox structure AND the ability to share an address book is the main reason we use Eudora. We do not have the luxury of having only one person use one computer. We have several people on one computer (no user accounts - all use the same account) and each can have their own invocation of Eudora. Wonderful.

* Many features in Eudora are important to me, but by FAR the most important one is the transparent .mbx and .toc mailbox format. I love the fact that you can easily find, back-up and restore all your Eudora mailboxes simply by copying the .mbx and .toc files and create new mailboxes manually simply by renaming them (for example, in.mbx can easily be backed-up to in-2.mbx). I also appreciate the fact that the .mbx default format is plain text, so even in the absence of the Eudora app itself, you can open your .mbx file in any text reader and find what you're looking for. Try that with an Outlook .pst file, I dare you. .mbx files will still be readable in 50 years, whereas I don't know if proprietary formats that mash up the attachment code with the message code will be. -- Mark S.

=== Top Eudora Features not in Thunderbird -- Mail/Search/Filters ===

* The fast, integrated search.[Vote for [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359311 359331]]

* Able to (optionally) group inbound and outbound mail, almost in GMail like "conversations".  And displays the correct user in the Who column (unlike Outlook etc.)[Vote for [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359270 359270]]

* The ability to manually set server status of mail - e.g. Set up Eudora to not delete messages from the server, once mail is retrieved and you don't need to retrieve it on another email client or while away, you can then tell Eudora to delete from server from the pop up menu.

* The ability to manually filter email messages using a single keystroke, such as Apple-J on OS X version. Filters in Eudora are invoked manually or automatically or both. If manually (select messages, then filter) this must be possible with a single keystroke rather than using a menu.

* The ability to Queue rather than Send email. It is invaluable to be able to compose a message and queue it. This allows a user (me) to then realize that it needs to be modified either because of an incorrect statement, missing information, or the wrong addressee, and fix it ''before'' it is sent.

=== Top Eudora Features not in Thunderbird -- UI General ===
* Platform-native UI
* Multiple windows rather than multiple panes for mailbox display [Vote for [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359422 359422]]

=== Top Eudora Features not in Thunderbird -- Security ===

* Inbuilt, crude and thus (relatively) secure HTML viewer.  Passing all incoming mail to a full browser is asking for trouble.  (Thunderbird does have some facilities in this regard, but it still uses Gecko.)  Security by design rather than by patch.

::: I agree 100% with the above. Eudora's limited support of HTML was a key feature. There is no need for an email to be able to do everything a web page can do, all that does is invite email viruses that can infect your machine just by reading them. It's better to only support a safe subset of HTML and provide a menu option to "display in the browser" the way that Eudora does.

=== Top Eudora Feature not in Thunderbird -- Mail redirection ===

* Eudora allows you to redirect incoming mail to another recipient by modifying the header of the original mail. This is a wonderful feature when you are a team leader and you have to dispatch mail coming to your mailbox. 

* The filter in Eudora is wonderful and I will like it in Penelope.

* The Ability to group incoming and outgoing mail in the mbox to follow the trend of a discussion.

== ### Post by Post discussion follows ### ==

== More details? ==

Where and when will more details on planned features, and the Penelope roadmap, be available?  I am especially interested in the UI plans for the Mac version of Penelope -- will a platform-native UI be provided, or will Penelope use the same kind of multiplatform (XUL?) UI that Thunderbird uses?  The following thread on the Eudora forums might be of interest to Penelope developers: [http://eudorabb.qualcomm.com/showthread.php?t=9850] and any responses would be welcome. Thanks for beginning this project; I'm eager to hear more information (e.g. when will a CVS repository be established, so we can see what's being developed and contribute?).  -- [[User:Rbellin|Rbellin]] 11:15, 11 October 2006 (PDT)

== My Want-List for (Mac/Windows)Eudora ==

What to add:
1. A universal binary for Intel Macs (Mac)
2. Eudora badly needs to understand UTF-8 (Mac)
3. Though I always send plain text emails, Eudora badly needs to know how to render the piles of HTML emails I do receive. (Mac)
4. Add more than 2 options in the filters; add a GREP interface for filters. (Mac/Win)

What not to change:
1. No forcing me to use a triple interface. I want every mailbox to open automatically as a list in a separate windows when new emails are filtered into the boxes. (Mac)[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359422 359422]
2. Maintain the wonderfully complex and innumerable preferences.  (Mac)
3. Maintain the Eudora Folder, so I can easily synch with multiple computers.  (Mac)
4. Mailbox format.  Keep the emails/boxes as simple text files. (Mac)
5. Keyboard shortcuts we've been using for a decade.  apple-E to send, etc.

What to delete:
1. Emoticons (who needs that?) (Win)
2. Bosswatch (no  sense detected!) (Win)
3. Delete any options or change their defaults ('use microsoft viewer', 'allow executables in html-content', 'automatically download html graphics'. (Win)
-- Pharao 15:07, 12 October 2006 (PDT)
4. Resource fork prefs. (Mac) -- [[User:Kernos|Kernos]] 2:42, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

What to add:  
(Win) -- I'd like the attachments to travel with the email when it is moved to a different folder.  
(Win) -- Click on tab to folder window in main window, then press delete, folder window goes away.  
(Win) -- One click backup-to-zip.  Click on this and your entire structure is backed up to a .zip file.  Handy when changing computers, updates, etc.

What to keep:  
Most all of it -- especially the simplicity -- of interface, operation, use, etc.

What to remove:
Bosswatch -- why is this there??  
-- drb,-- 2008 (pac) 18 Nov. 2006.


Hi Good Morning:

I am looking for some features in an eMail program, I understand U are developing a new one and that U might like to hear about the features I am interested such that U might be able to incorporate them into your new eMail program. 

I use eNom to send my eMail and have for a couple of years, they seem to be able to deliver only about 1/2 of my eMail and I do not get back many error messages. many of my customers (Mostly coming from eBay) do not really know of they received my eMail or not. I am trying to make a living in this way and it is very frustrating. I need better conformation information.

I need to know if a customer has received and ready my eMail, there is the traditional read receipt as a first option, but the eMail programs I have used are not sophisticated enough to attach the read receipt to the sent eMail, U therefore need to sort through them all to see if the eMail has been read. A flag on the sent eMail would be Cool

Alternatively or additionally it would be cool if a downloaded logo in an eMail could flag a sent eMail as having been read. Microsoft eMail programs always give the operator the chance to block the opening of such logos or photos but I often allow it as it makes the eMail easier to read. If U could flag the sent eMail with a LOGO opened receipt, that would be awesome, this sounds difficult but.................

With best Regards from
Ross and Eye

== Heresy ==

Heresy! There is one Outlook feature that I would like to see in Eudora and (if it doesn't exist already) Thunderbird. When you create e-mail filters (known as "Actions" in Outlook), Outlook gives you the option not only of filtering all future mail on the basis you've chosen, it'll go back and filter all the existing mail in your In Box on the same basis. For example, if you've decided to filter all the e-mail from joe@xyz.ca into a "Joe" folder, Outlook will allow you to batch-move all the existing e-mail from Joe as well.

Mark S.

You guys are moving way too slowly.
This will fail as the commercial effort to upgrade Eudora failed.
Just pick one Eudora feature and release something.
Stop striving for perfection.

,dave

== We don't need another Outlook clone - we'd like Eudora ==

The reason people buy Eudora (OK, some get it in Paid) is because they like the particular things it does.

My tuppence: HTML rendering can be handled by the HTML engines in respective OSs. Then let's keep the things that Eudora does do - mailboxes in their own windows [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359422 359422] (and remembering where they are), scriptability on Apple at least, and - oh yes - speed. Speed is the real killer bit. Speed of searching even very very big (text file) mailboxes, speed of sorting and checking.

I'd really like to be able to import messages to Eudora from Thunderbird. At the moment that is not an option. Thanks!

== How about Linux? ==

One major reason I'm running Windows emulation on my Linux box is so I can keep running Eudora. I've been waiting for Eudora or Linux for years. I haven't ported to a Linux mail client because I've got dozens of folders and hundreds of mailbox files and addressbook stuff that got mangled the only time I did a serious try at changing over.

If "Eudora" in future is going to be a shell or other sort of extension running over Thunderbird, can that shell/extension be ported to Linux?

=== Yes, please ===
I support this very strongly! I'm also just keeping a partition with Windows in order to be able to use Eudora. When Penelope would run under Linux I finally could make the move away from Windows.

=== Linux via Java? ===
Would it make sense to develop Penelope in Java for cross-platform support (Linux, Mac, Win, ...)?   --[[User:BobK|BobK]] 16:41, 12 February 2007 (PST)

== Eudora features that matter to me ==

Here are some of the things that make me stick with Eudora:

* Ability to display mailboxes in individual windows.[[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359422 359422]] Ability to set mailboxes to open when new messages filter into them. 

* Option-click grouping. The ability to rapidly group all messages in a thread, or all messages from a particular author, comes in handy all the time.[Vote for [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359267 359267]]

* AppleScript scriptability. (I know, I know... getting that supported in Thunderbird will be really rough, but without it, things will not be good.)[Vote for [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360939 360939]]


* Keyboard shortcut to move to the next message in the stack while a current message is open. This behavior is something I've come to rely on in Eudora, and it drives me up a tree that Apple Mail doesn't do it. (Yes, I prefer to read my messages in separate windows, not in a preview pane.) [[User:Jsnell|Jsnell]] 16:39, 11 October 2006 (PDT)

* Customizable labels on Toolbar with Customizable colors -- this is one of Eudora's best features others don't have, with the only problem being that one is currently limited to 7 colors/labels.  [[User:Kei|Kei]]

* The way Eudora immediately expands mailing list nicknames into their component addresses after I tab to the next field.  This allows me to edit the alias and remove recipients that I don't want to send a message to.

* The 'Clear Formatting' feature in the message composition window.  I suppose bandwidth is cheap, but I receive many emails filled with gif's, colorful fonts, and doodads.  This allows me to remove all of this stuff in one stroke (two, actually) when replying to such a message.

* Being able to 'Send Again' a received message.  Without this, I must edit the message to remove the forwarding header before I send it.

* Unique ability to automatically detach Attachment from mailbox to specified folder.

== Please Keep Mailbox File Structure ==

Though I love many things about the Eudora interface, the most important reason I have never moved to Outlook is the terrible way Outlook has of saving your entire email archive in a single, gigantic file.

I've had that single gigantic file get corrupted at various jobs I've worked where they forced me to use Outlook.  It's also a tremendous pain to back it up.

Please keep Eudora's mailbox file structure.
--------

I SECOND THIS! The above hits my primary love of Eudora on the head! - arfon

I THIRD this. The reason I have not switched to any other email software is the wonderful mbox structure. - Dave Barnes (dave@marketingtactics.com)

Totally agree. Outlook has hosed my mailboxes on several sites, and it is a serious pain to recover. The simple mbox format is much safer.

YES YES YES!!! This is by far the most important reason I use Eudora. -CharlesS

-------------------
I agree the basic structure shouldn't be radically altered, however, my only bugger with the format as are three fold.
a) the mbox format is formatted as a Mac OS 9 format, so to recover it using any unix tools you must reconvert the mailbox to unix line endings.
b) there should be a unique begin message/end message 'marker' ... ok I say this, because once I got screwed by Eudora's auto-mailbox-recovery..and had to try manipulating things using csplit.
c) the mailbox should be allowed to grow way past 32,000 messages...doubly so if it auto-mailbox-recoveries...now, if due to uncompressed mailboxes, you go over the 32,000 message hard-limit, it will recover your messages -- but your mailbox can't be opened.

I'd like to see bigger (MAYBE INFINITELY) mailboxes.
-dfass

--------------------
I think the .mbx/.toc pairing is one of eudora's strong features, which contributes a lot to its ability to move and group messages fast. Unless there is good reason, I would prefer the mbx structure was left as is and new features were added by improving the .toc format -tropos


--------------------

I think one of the major goals of Eudora is the Find gui. With those beautiful combos to filter the search, you can find anything in a second.


--------------------
I tried out Thunderbird and thought it was great. But the one big mailbox structure, and how it was stored, killed it for me. With Eudora I keep my mailboxes in an encrypted partition (Truecrypt), the program elsewhere. Thunderbird put it all in an unlterable default in my C: drive.

I also like the mbx/toc pairing. The directory structure works very well, don't mess with it.
--------------------
Switched to Eudora 4-5 years ago when Outlook and it's files were corrupted by a windows zero-day breach. Microsoft DID try to step through me through several recovery attempts but even re-installing OS couldn't get it to re-read original files. Eudora actually read and imported those same files that Outlook itself couldn't read. The simple file structure is beautiful. Give me plain text readable by any word processor ANY DAY over "time-bomb" proprietary formats no matter how "cool" they are.

--------------------

Another "yes" vote -- primarily because of mail-store *size* issues.  There have been dark days in Eudora's past where I've considered (gasp!) migrating away.  But the importers all choke on my huge historical pile o'mail.

Yet another reason to leave the file structure intact is just how darn simple it is to manipulate.  I like the ability to tinker with the store myself with nothing more than a text editor.

--------------------

Another vote for the current structure (as opposed to the "single large file" method).

One thing I haven't seen mentioned before: it's crucial that the importers retain state that lives in the .toc files.  Message status, labels, and any edits to the subject line of received messages.  In Eudora right now, AFAIK, there's no way to get this info to transfer between Mac/Win versions, and 10 years of subject annotations are pretty much the only thing keeping me from moving back from PC to Mac.

--------------------

I Nth this request. Good ol' plain-text mbox, please.

A (minor) request would be to put each mailbox's mbox, toc, attachments (optionally), and perhaps persistent settings, into an OS X .pkg (or just a directory on other platforms).

--------------------

N+1th .. I also like the plain text mailboxes and the folder structure that uses the operating system's own file system.  --[[User:BobK|BobK]] 16:46, 12 February 2007 (PST)

--------------------

I tried out Thunderbird and found it stuffed everything in one huge mailbox, almost exactly the way Microsoft's email client does. This just isn't acceptable since I now have over 500 mailboxes in Eudora. I keep all email from each author supplier, etc. in a separate mailbox and keep all mailboxes on a separate drive.   Any change in this approach just wouldn't work for me - I've tried it.  - Shad

-------------------------
The mailbox feature is absolutely required. Performing backups and restores is made so much simpler. - Peter

== Feature request ==
The ability to cc: without Attachment (e.g. ccw/oA: ) so one can send the primary recipient an attachment but not saddle the cc recipients with the attachment. I've been requesting this for years and would probably switch to whatever mailer implemented it (except Outlook of course).
john coleman [[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359426 359426]]

Something I've always wanted in Eudora: checkboxes in the dropdown recipient list.

By recipient list I mean the list that drops down when you do 
Message | New Message To
or
Edit | Insert Recipient

Right now if I want to CC an email to ten people I need laboriously Insert each Recipient seperately.  

I've wanted a checkoff list for as long as I've used the program.

----

- I have always wanted a basic calendar. Nothing fancy, just something simple like the Palm Desktop calendar. -CharlesS

- The address book is clunky. It would be great to rethink this and make it more user friendly. -CharlesS

----

- I have always wanted a way to archive old messages into a folder of its own so I can get them offline! This should include the attachments and embedding. -[[User:MISchwartz|MISchwartz]] [[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359427 359427]]

---

PRUNE - I have asked several times for the "Prune" command.  "Prune" allows one to select a date and delete all messages in a folder with a dat equal to or prior to the date entered.  This feature would be particularly helpful in the trash folder where I would like to keep only the last 2 months deletions. - Kernel

Kernel --
But, you can save a search to do your PRUNE-ing...
e.g. Search Trash with criteria Date before xxxx, then, run, select all, and delete.
-dfass
---
Sound - From time to time I receive a message with an imbeded graphic that includes sound.  At present, the sound is lost if the message is forwarded.  I'd like to see this corrected. - Kernel

----
The 'attach file' window is no longer sizable under ver. 7.1 with Windows XP. Please bring it back.

-rcommage
----

I just checked in Statistics, my total e-mail tally is 1.205.011. The mbox structure, in sigle files (with attachments being actual files), is the main reason I stick with Eudora. That and the lightning fast search.

My request is to get rid of the 32K messages per mailbox limit.

didonini
----

== Priorities & Philosophy ==

I think that it would be good to know  & discuss the priorities & philosophy for development work. The initial Roadmap is vague, though understandably at this time. I look at this primarily from a Mac OS X viewpoint, looking at 3.0a1.

For priorities, many of us have supported Eudora on both Mac and PC platforms for many years. Over the years, users have drifted to other clients for a variety of reasons. #1 priority for me, on a tech support level, would be a way to bring back users from other clients in a reliable and functional way. This may necessitate a stand alone converter/translator similar to Emailchemy. All other email clients to Eudora, Mac or PC. Maintain attachment and inline graphic information and location. 

Next priority would be to tie into existing OS X technologies, similarly to Mail. Support for live Address Book access and updating (not a one time import feature)[[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359277 359277]], iCal events, etc. Build for new Leopard technologies in this area. 

Comment:  As a Windows user, I might suggest a more open basis for Address Book access.  Consider the vCard[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VCard] format for exchange of address information. - Kernel

Allow multiple prefs.js files to open separate groups of identities. I currently use multiple Eudora folders, each with multiple personalities, each accessed via alias to Eudora Settings file. This could be accomplished using multiple Profile folders and a Profile Manager. 

Philosophically, what will the look and feel be like? Tri-panel is very restrictive, and too much like Outlook. Allow for more windowing flexibility like Eudora Mac currently has.[[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359422 359422]] Multiple open mailboxes unbound from the tri-panel. Drag and drop messages between mailboxes and to the desktop. Don't confuse mailboxes with folders. Eudora does it right by allowing a folder that you put mailboxes in. A folder with both email and another folder is too confusing for many. 

Use Mac UI similarly to the way Camino departs from Firefox and Mozilla, yielding a better user experience. Need to explicitly line out the differences between the existing Thunderbird project and Penelope. i.e is Penelope superseding Thunderbird? Is it parallel development, so both clients survive? Will Eudora 7 PC code and Mac Eudora 7 UB code (if existent) be combined to a common source base and then integrated with Thunderbird? Or will it be all new development, just bringing the "look and feel" and some features of Eudora to Thunderbird via extensions and themes?

Jim

== Features Discussion ==
I have over 200,000 messages in my assorted mailboxes, so the search and filter functionality is key to me.  I've got over 100 filters (and many more that have been retired), so they need to keep current functionality, stay fast, and improve: more than two criteria would cut down the number I need.

I like the Windows indexed search, but I'd like Spotlight integration as well/better, as long as it's fast.  I agree with the commenter who wanted to use system-wide functions when possible.

I use less than 10 personalities, and managing that seems easy.

As a long-time Eudora user with way too much mail to consider migrating, I'd like to see a feature comparison or gap analysis so I know what good things are coming from T-Bird that I just never bothered to find out about.

Also, I'd prefer if it used the system rendering engine so it wasn't extra-bulky.  WebKit on MacOSX, please.

My $0.02,
Michael Croft

== Suggestions ==

While I love Eudora & have used it since 2.x but I also would love to see a Calendar feature such as Lightning & some improvements in the address book as far as contacts are concerned & in this way I finally can get rid of Outhouse.

For the most part tho I would take great care not to change too much with the existing program as you wouldn't want to alienate the existing user base.

I belong to an Eudora 4 Windows email list & I hope that continues as I much prefer that to online forums altho those aren't as bad as they use to be since more & more people are acquiring hispeed access but email lists cater better to those who as stuck with dialup.

Thank You for listening to my requests.

WaViJo

-----------------------------------

I would like a non-blocking-gui find. But don't touch anything else in the find window!!

Flagos.

-----------------------------------

I agree with WaViJo, a good calendar would be very useful -especially something with a office calendar share that would easily trump Microsoft Outlook. 
In regards to eudora 6, 7 more work needs to be done regarding opening mail over the network from different clients accessing the same shared email folder which is something worth considering!

George.

== Unicode: sine qua non ==

One reason people like me stick with Eudora and don't move to Mail or Thunderbird is that we rely on Eudora's simplicity and functionality. A lot of that has to do with keyboard navigation through messages and mailboxes. I see that "remapping of accelerator keys" is one of the things scheduled for Release 0.1. I hope that this does not change navigation behaviour too much, but I am not sure what "accelerator" means here.

Another reason is that Eudora is simple but powerful enough to manage our e-mail. I have 21,000 items in my In box, 69MB, some going back as far as 1995. I do use other mailboxes, and am not a mindless packrat -- but my In box is large, and serves as my file-cabinet. My Out box too is large, 26,000 items, only 34MB. I don't know about Thunderbird, but Apple's Mail can't handle this at all as far as I can see.

There is only ''one'' area in which Eudora is actually ''broken'', and I would like to '''beg''' the team to make fixing this their '''priority'''. The ''essence'' of e-mail is plain-text communication. Not spam protection, or fancy filtering, or scripting, or HTML. But plain old ''text'' in languages that people want to use. And that's were Eudora fails us: The text engine has not been updated to enable processing of UTF-8 text both in and out. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 03:09, 12 October 2006 (PDT)

'''More on Unicode support as priority.'''
 
''Demographic reasons (priority as importance):''
Without unicode support, Penelope would be just as useless for the majority of potential users as Eudora is useless now. I use Eudora at work (though it sometimes has problems even with the diacritics of the "Western" charset), but have to use Thunderbird at home for my private mails in Russian. And yes, people wanting to communicate (also) in other languages than English constitute the majority of the Internet users, though for obvious reasons they may be under-represented in this forum. 

''Technical reasons (priority meaning doing it first):''
It should be much easier to have the software treating '''every''' text as a unicode text than to decide every time which encoding is it now. Convert e-mails to unicode on arrival, then forget about the encodings.
--[[User:Funfilder|Funfilder]] 11:41, 11 November 2006 (PST)


''''Not only Unicode''''

If there is one thing painfully missing from Eudora for all its life so far, that is support for Right-To-Left writing languages, including Hebrew. Eudora is barely able to read Hebrew coded messages, and totally unable to write. I know there are some work-arounds on the Mac (for reading, as the Mac itself is as bad with writing from the other side of the page). There are many users who simply cannot work with this wonderful program because of this 'small' limitation.
Furthermore, as opposed to Outlook, and in addition to what has already been written above, I think that the ability to choose encoding should be very easy to find (and not deeply hidden) as well as the ability to set default encodings, just as in any web browser, but no current email program.
Finally, the message should be able to be saved with that encoding for any future viewing.
Adrian 11-11-2006

Comment by Wataru: The ability to set default encodings is in "no current email program"? If I understand correctly, this ability is already in Thunderbird, which even lets you set it on a per-folder basis and per-account basis; and it is implemented in many other email programs I use as well. I agree entirely that Penelope needs to have full international language support to be meaningful.

Tenga Wataru

== Mailbox structure ==

I agree with everyone else about leaving the mail boxes as text files, but I can see lots of room for improvement there also.

1. Move the location of the mailboxes away from the application directory.
2. Don't throw all attachments and embedded content into one directory.  Have an attachment directory and an embedded directory for each mailbox.  This will make it easy to archive mailboxes by copying the mailboxes and the related directories.

(I can only speak for the windows version, but I've been doing this (1) for ten years now. Just pass the location of eudora.in as a parameter to eudora exe it will use that location as the mailbox directory.  -tropos)

It would be nice to have an email program that holds 10-20 "Filing Cabinets" Each would be a separate email account, with in/out/junk mailboxes. I have to monitor and send from 11 email accounts most days and have to do this one by one. I use Eudora 6.2 (11 times)If the Norton Internet Security 2007 integrated as well (Only Outlook at the moment) this would be a plus.

== What makes Eudora the best ==

1/ The Filter system.  This is far superior to any I have seen in other email clients.  I am particularly fond of "intersects address book" and "matches regexp" without which I would find life very difficult.

2/ The file system.  i.e. the fact that all important Eudora files, including address books and mailboxes, are in plain text format.

3/ Stationery.  Speaks for itself.

4/ The Junk mail system.  Works fine for me most of the time.

5/ Compared to Outlook, Outlook Express and others, it is relatively safe from attack by viruses etc.

6/ The look and feel.  I (have to) use Outlook at work and its just not in the same league as Eudora which I find friendlier, easier and faster to use.

== I'd like to see the folder structure come through this intact ==

I've got 3.5G in various Eudora mailboxes and folders. (I've been using Eudora since 1999.

I use Eudora e-mails to myself as pointers to my reference collection. 

I'd also like to see the internal message search engine improved. . . (I'm using Lite). . . a search box with free-text entry of Boolean operators (AND OR NOT NEAR DATE) would be really, really nice. 

There really isn't any real reason once basic functionality is achieved, that the UI can't be improved to the point where Eudora becomes the mail client of choice for power users again.

== Effective work with large mailboxes ==

People's mailboxes are getting bigger and bigger, often containing gigabytes of data and hundreds of thousands of messages. Web mail providers nowadays offer gigabytes of space with very good browsing and search capabilities. But a lot of desktop email clients (at least Thunderbird) still don't work well with such large amounts of mail, and almost none of them (except Eudora) has a fast search feature. This is where I think Eudora, with its good handling of large mailboxes and its Ultra-Fast Search, can contribute the most to Thunderbird.

Really, every mail client can read and send email, but it's handling large amounts of data that separates serious production-quality products from toys. Please take this into consideration during development of Thunderbird and Penelope if you want serious people to use them. And if T. and/or P. also had a fast search feature, that would mean a great competitive advantage and would make it one the best email clients.

== The Search is the thing! ==

I'm a Mac user.

The thing I MOST NEED is the Boolean Search!  Why Apple hasn't seen fit to include this, despite the 
fact that they implemented it at the Finder level is beyond me.  (Try CMD-F from the Finder and 
wonder for yourself why you can't do that in Mail.app!)  And don't anyone even START on the use of 
"Smart Folders" as a workaround.  It's not even CLOSE to being the same!  Thunderbird seems to lack 
this functionalty as well, which is why I haven' switched to it already.  I NEED to be able to find all 
messages, for example, from "greg" sent in march of 2005 with the word "server" in the subject and 
the word "crash" in the body.  Oh yeah, and these messages could be in any number of mailboxes, so I should be able to define WHICH mailboxes get searched!  This is CAKE in Eudora!

I'll also need the ability to change Thunderbird's Command Keys to what Eudora's used to be.  I'm 
stuck on CMD-M to manually check mail, CMD-R, CMD-OPT-R, CMD-J, CMD-F, CMD-Y... I use them 
without thinking!

Eudora's stats are fun.

The chili peppers are cool too, and I have saved my own butt more than once because of Eudora's 
"wait-10-minutes-before-sending-a-hot-message" thing.  

I'm sure I'll think of more, but the search really is the big thing.

== What I'd like to see... ==

I'm not a power user, but I've been using Eudora/Mac for about eleven years now. I really want to see the individual windows for different mailboxes and messages maintained; the three-pane interface that so many email clients use just doesn't cut it for me. Judging from the other posts here, I'm not alone.[ Vote for [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359422 359442]]

In addition, the search feature is terrific, and I'd like to see that continued, as well as the excellent junk mail filter. Like others, though, I'd also like to see more than two arguments possible for any given filter. I love the way I can make Eudora do what I want it to do via its multiple prefs, though, and I sincerely hope that Penelope will be as "friendly" an application. At present, Eudora can be as simple or as complex as we users want it to be -- and that's the way a good application *should* be.

Making Penelope capable of interacting with iCal and Address Book [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359277 359277] would be a definite plus. It's awkward having to maintain two address books, since the import of Address Book into Eudora at the moment isn't a dynamically updated one.

== What's important to me ... ==

from http://emperor.tidbits.com/webx/?50@382.uFgFba7FrRQ@.3c804d7a - "Steve Dorner admits he doesn't know which parts of Eudora are most useful to its proponents" - so, since I've been using Eudora for 11 years, and since I got burned dabbling with other email clients, here are my votes:

OVERALL

... it is Speed, Reliability, Flexibility that keeps me using Eudora ...


ESSENTIAL TO THE EUDORA EXPERIENCE (on a MAC):

1. The speed of mailbox search : the trust that comes of knowing that I can find anything from my 11 years worth of email in seconds or less (please forget Spotlight integration if this would mean changing the mailbox structure in a way that might compromise reliabilty - Eudora search is fast enough)[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359311 359311]

2. The Eudora Folder : the simplicity of being able to move the Folder over from computer to computer knowing that Eudora will open exactly as I left it the previous session on a different machine - so so useful in many situations: back-up, losing a machine to maintainance, lending/borrowing computers

[davidmorr: It is not entirely true that you can just move the Eudora Folder to other machines. On Mac Eudora, if you have filtered attachments into different folders, Eudora can only find them again if they are put back in the Attachments folder. The filter definitions also lose track of the folder you wanted them to go to. Hopefully, Penelope will deal with this issue.
]

3. Separate attachment folder: having the choice of moving the entire mailbox structure over to a new computer quickly (for emergency situations) knowing that you can come back to pick up the attachments later - a big time saver [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359319 359319]

(((I suspect that these three points are interrelated - I should add that I have NEVER experienced corrupted or lost data in Eudora)))

4. Configurablity - compared to anything else, Eudora seems almost infinitely configurable - from simple to complex

5. UI choice - separate windows for mailboxes [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359422 359422] - vertical or horizontal toolbar[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359276 
59276]  - abilty to add many different commands to toolbar [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359274 359274] - for me the UI, despite looking uglier every day, is nonetheless flexible enough to be usefully rearranged for working on anything from a tiny laptop screen to a huge desktop monitor

6. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=filter&product=Penelope&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&resolution=DUPLICATE&resolution=---&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=exact&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= Filters] and [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=Junk&product=Penelope&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&resolution=DUPLICATE&resolution=---&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=exact&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= Spam Filtering] that just work



ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT FOR MAC OS (in no particular order)

1. Unicode support

2. HTML rendering

3. Ctrl-clicking bringing up contextual menus

4. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359277 OS X Address Book] and [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360951 iCal] integration

5. IMAP support


UI SUGGESTIONS

1. for the power email user - create a infinitely configurable UI that allows you to arrange your desktop email experience as you like - I imagine something like a pro-design app feel ''a la'' Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc that makes use of a vertical/horizontal toolbar that you can customise with just about any command, and dockable panels for things like mailboxes, signatures, settings etc

2. for Grandma!!! - an optional 3-pane view - so she gets the fast search and reliablity, without having to confront the power user interface

... why not have the best of both worlds, including an ability to display in 3-pane mode is absolutely consistent with one of Eudora's fundamental propositions - choice!

WHAT NOW?

I wait. Eudora 6.2.4 serves me well enough. I'd like more from my Eudora experience but fundamentally I'm not prepared to move on, and undergo the mail/filters import pain, while there's still some hope that I could have a new app that will leave my Eudora folder intact. I'm not moving to Thunderbird as it exists now

== Why I use Eudora - key features ==

1. Ease of handling many email accounts from a simple single interface.

2. Ease of creating complex filter rules for organizing incoming email by source, topic, email account, etc.

3. Rapid search by header only, receipients, From, To and entire body of All Mail Folders or just a subset.

4. Ability to turn off viewing Images and HTML in email.  Keep this as an option.  {I may be one of the few that do not want integrated HTML rendering.  95% of HTML messages are JUNK and for the few I want to see, Open in Browser works great.}

5. Simple visual interface for determining which Mail Folders contain unread messages.

6. Drag & Drop or transfer of messages between mailboxes.

7. Uncluttered interface that lets me keep several frequently used Mail Folders open and easily accessable.

8.  SPAM Watch is a great tool.  I get 300-350 messages a day filtered into the Junk Folder, which I keep sorted by Junk Score.  This lets me quickly scan the low junk score messages for false positives and/or search on key Subject words that I want to move out of Junk.  There are still 15-20 JUNK messages left each day in my IN box, so any improvement in the filtering is always welcome.

9. Filter Report is very useful.

10. The ability to REDIRECT an email comes in handy when that is what you really want to do instead of a FORWARD.

11.  Abilty to be able to pick which headers get displayed is great.

12. Nickname expansion and auto complete are very handy.

13. Spell Check(along with it's feature options) works very nicely and is an important feature, as is the ability to warn if you forget to include a Subject.

14. The toolbar is handy as it is and would be even better if there was some support for simple scripting to allow something like Move to Folder, Mark Read, Set Label to...; all from one button.

15. Being able to set POP settings by Personality comes in handy occasionally.

16. Being able to set the Moving Around options to fit how you work is nice.

17. The simple folder structure for storing email is much better for backing up and moving to another computer (even Mac to Win) than the single file approach taken by many.

18. Option-Click Sorting on Who & Subject is something I use at least once a day, usually followed by a scan of the messages using Splat-DownArrow to open the messages in order to review an email exchange.

19. Reply Quoted Section (select, shift-Reply) is something I use all the time to keep replys short.  Ability to select disjoint text (maybe auto add <<snip>> in the gaps) and to do this when Forwarding a message would be a welcome improvement..

I'm sure I've missed something important, but I think this is a fairly complete list of what I find most useful and why I stick with Eudora.  Mood Watch, Content Concentrator and Scam Watch have not been useful to me and I have then all turned off.  ScamWatch might be handy if I could "turn-it-on" only when I wanted with say a CTRL-MouseClick over a suspicious link.  I don't use the Preview Pane as I prefer to use the Splat-DownArrow to move through messages I am reading, which is why Content Concentrator has never been useful.

-Landy

== What an odd combination ==

Thunderbird and Eudora are certainly odd bed-creatures. Their interfaces are quite different, both for mail operations and for setting preferences. What kind of interface will Penelope have? Is Penelope going to be close to Eudora, with Thunderbird existing separately?

From my standpoint, each program has its own strengths and weaknesses,in addition to which there are some important features that neither has.

Eudora's biggest advantage is the rules-defining interface, which lets us define many different rules and actions easily. Thunderbird's strengths are its excellent IMAP4 support, language and character set support (an area where Eudora falls down badly), ability to read all unread messages with the spacebar alone across all folders and accounts, and the popup notifications.

Both programs have heavy footprints and use too much memory. Their biggest weaknesses, though, are the poverty of template variables, and inability to assign templates to folders and/or contacts (see The Bat! for an example of both). Those of us who use the same email client for friends, mailing lists, and business really need to have this functionality. (Eudora by default uses the "On [date], you wrote" template, which can be switched only in the prefs file, and is universal for all folders and accounts. This is unacceptably poor. Thunderbird is only marginally better.)

So what will Penelope strive to be?

Please see also http://wiki.mozilla.org/User_talk:Wataru for more details.

== My fav Eudora features ==

I've been using Eudora (paid) since it was originally introduced on the Mac, although for the last decade or so I've been on the PC version due to workplace constaints (no Macs allowed).  You can imagine how much mail I've accumulated in all that time.  Anyway, I want to take this opportunity to thank Steve for such a quality product.

That said, these are the features I absolutely need to see on the new version (in no particular order):

- Being able to migrate my existing filters. I love Eudora's filtering, and not only do I need to keep the same capabilities, but I don't want to have to recreate my list of filters.

- The indexed search is awesome, including the updates for 7.1.  It's made me happy that I chose to never delete any email - searching is now a joy rather than a pain.

- Personalities, and the relay personality.

- Thanks for accommodating gmail's weird servers, and please keep that new feature as well.

- Drop and drag attachments.

- As has been mentioned many times, the folder setup with a private folder per user and a separate attachment folder, and text mail files.

- Autocompletion when typing email addresses.

- Easily removing all formatting so you know when a message will be sent in unadorned ASCII, on a per-message basis.

- Ability to edit the from email address on outgoing email (in addition to defining a new personality for well-used email addresses)

- Plugins for removing quotes, unwrapping text, changing capitalization, etc.

- Spell checking.

- Customizable toolbar[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359274 359274]and[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359276 359276], with just about every capability being available as an icon

- Options to leave mail on server or not, individually download complete messages, delete from server, etc.[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360963 360963]

- Junk filter.

- Contextual menus.

Thanks again for a great product over the years.

Andy Malis
amalis@gmail.com

== Another voice... ==

While I've removed the icon from Eudora from my desktop and am trying to exclusively utilize T'bird, the things I miss are:

Search.  Yup - Eudora rocked for searches.

Filters.  Seemed solid in Eudora, could just be growing pains for me w/ regards to getting used to T'bird's.

What I'd like?  The ability to easily edit and/or delete addresses from the autofill information that Eudora stored.  Again, maybe it's user stupidity but after several years of using Eudora, I could never intuitively find how to do this.

Thanks!

== Plain Text Mailbox Structure, Filters, Searchability ==

The number one thing that has kept me using and returning to Eudora since 1993 (?) is the simplicity of the mailbox structure, which uses plain ASCII text files. I have never lost nor known anyone to lose a single message in Eudora, and plain ASCII text is a huge part of this. Plain ASCII also makes the search function faster and I *love* the power of filters when combined with search.

Please maintain the current plain-text mailbox structure, separate folder for decoded attachments and default behavior to place everything in the one "Eudora Folder." Thank you thank you thank you for having been there all these many years. I adore Eudora!

== Just in case... ==

Looking at the commentaries so far, it's almost unnecessary to add my opinion... But you did ask for "user input". Eudora's mail store is fantastic: Single and simple (text) files per mailbox, clear hierarchy, easily movable, and, most importantly, easy to backup and restore. Entourage/Outlook and any other program that uses a single file for storing mail are unusable for me: The nightmare of having to back up a 5GB file just because a single 1K message was added...

Pretty much second on my list is the "Who" column [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359270 359270], since I'm usually aware of who I am; an excellent way to save space on the screen.

Thanks for keeping Eudora alive!

== Labels ==

One feature I'd really like to see retained is the ability to color messages through the use of labels.  I have several filters setup to change the color on a message based on recipient fields (red if I'm the To: recipient, blue if CC'ed, green if sent to a mailing list, etc).  Makes it very easy to quickly scan your inbox and decide which messages to read first based on their color.

[Mdudziak: Penelope (Thunderbird) already does this, though they are called 'Tags', not Labels']

== AppleScript ==

Keep the [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360939 AppleScript-ability] please! I have a set of about 20+ scripts that I use all the time, partly triggered with key shortcuts, helping me deal with my email. AppleScript makes Eudora infinitely extensible, just like current day plug-in mechanisms, only that this one has been available for ~ 15 years.

== Feature Requests ==

...from another one who's been using Eudora since the internet only consisted of 2 guys with a stick...  [Internet?!? I used Eudora's UUCP features. Damn kids, get off my lawn...]

1) I want to be able to take my current personalities, mail folders, preferences and plugins with me, seamlessly, when I upgrade to the new open source version.

2) send html e-mails

2a) Send html web pages I create in another appplication such as GoLive or Dreamweaver.

3) receive and display properly html e-mails (duh)

4) Seamless [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359277 Address book integration].  Right now Eudora is my main contacts manager...but more and more apps use Apple's Address book integration to function so I find I have to transfer contacts from Eudora into Address book just to use this other app.  I don't like having 2 address books to manage the same info.  I also don't like not being able to sync my phone or other devices directly with Eudora.  I'd like to, within Eudora, be able to write and edit addresses directly within Apple's Address book.

5) I can't emphasize # 1 enough.  I've got a thousand years worth of e-mail in Eudora and I want it to seamlessly import or be utilized by the new app.

6) Keep the super-fast searching.[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359311 359311]

7) Double clicking on a mail field such as name or subject causes all of the messages with the same name or subject to group together.  Love that.  Keep that. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359267 359267]

8) Send all current Eudora users $100.  (Hey this is a wish list)

9)Add (yes, I know, it is a lot of work) an address importer/editor so one can collate several address lists (thunderbird, eudora, mozilla, palm, even outlook which I never use), eliminate duplicates, fix errors, and even export, at least in some formats; Thunderbird certainly.

== My opinions ==

I tried switching to Thunderbird but immediately gave up on it because it has no option I could find corresponding to 'Open in Browser'. I don't want my mail client automatically rendering HTML. I want to send selected messages to my browser of choice (Safari) where I can use the full features of the browser including saving in webarchive format. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360966 360966]

I want to keep the ability of opening non-HTML messages in a separate window with a button I can click to increase the font size. A major improvement in this area would be to have more than just the two sizes - either separate buttons for increasing/decreasing the font size or a drop down list. [Mdudziak: Thunderbird (Penelope) already supports this via Command-+ and Command-- (minus) when viewing a message, be it html or plain text.]

Contextual menus would be a great addition. I'd like to option-click on a message and get a menu with items such as 'Open in Browser' for example.

I'd also like the return of a feature that was lost somewhere along the way. When I click 'Check for Messages'. I'd like the program to tell me explicity when I have no new messages so I know when it is finished checking. If this is a problem for scripts or other mechanisms that implement an auto-check feature, perhaps the 'no mail' notification could be a user-selectable option. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360970 360970]

I definitely want to retain the ability to specify the e-mail address that recipients of outgoing mail see as my address since I have my incoming mail re-routed to my "real" e-mail address which might change from time to time.

== eudora 7.1 user waiting for Penelope.... ==

Well I suspected Qualcomm wanted to dump Eudora (the little stepchild). It is a great product and I have been using it daily since 1998 along side firefox since 0.8. I have done some beta testing and would consider myself an advanced user with 450 mail boxes, 85,000 messages, about 15 personalities, 100 filters and tons of stationery and signatures. I really do promote eudora and having so much invested in it I did not want to risk loosing the format of massages that I have compiled since 1998. What is nice is that even the 7.1 version of eudora is fully compatible with messages created in 1998.

So is the idea to make an open source Eudora called Penelope or to incorporate the best features of Thunderird  and Eudora and make one email product.

Here is what I use daily and how I would like to tweak it. Some of these suggestions I have made before to the eudora team but they never when anywhere

I really like the [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359260 personality change] feature and really like the ability to edit the outgoing address on the fly

I really need the relay ability as verizon does not let me use other email severs to send out my domain mail. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360971 360971]

I really love the faster eudora X1 searching and note that my stand alone x1 search interface will work with eudora but I still use the eudora interface. Perhaps those need to be melded together better

I need the ability to group filters into folders and I have many filters for one client that has many associated subjects (like the third party filter editor out there )

Stationery and signatures work fine but I would like to imbed images into a signature

Embedding photos into eudora works fine, but sometimes stuff imbedded into outlook and sent to me does not work. The viewer should be based on Firefox 2.0 and not IE

One huge pet peeve is that when I send HTML mgs to Older Lotus Notes users they cannot see any text or attachments unless I send it in plain text to all recipients

Another note. You need to incorporate all the best features out of the outlook address book into eudora and make it more compatible with systems that use outlook address books so that I could use the address book more. I use excell databases for long email lists so I can sort them better. May want to look into that. Like complex sorting, such as sorting by interests or job categories or zip codes. In other words full database functionality for usefulness beyond eudora. Perhaps some open source stuff from mozilla can be plugged in. I do like the way you can freely paste many addresses into the address book at once and also paste email addresses from excell into the bcc or to field in eudora. A nice feature outlook used was a plain text check box for address book recipients that can only see plain text. The boss watch check box is a nice touch in eudora.

The address book auto completion drop down list is also a keeper

I like composing off line and like how it can send under multiple address simultaneously

I like the small size of the program and the files as it allows me to easily synchronize may lap top and back up hard drives quickly and easily

Things I would like to see:

Why dont you add a feature that will allow you to [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359319 store attachments in a directory path you choose] for messages filtered to a specific mailbox. Each mailbox would get its own attachment folder wherever you want to put it. I have hundreds of mailboxes and it is very hard to keep track of thousands of attachments in one single file. I guess the attachments could work under the filter list. All incoming attachments that go with messages into the smith eudora folder will automatically go into C:/mydocuments/smith file/  or what ever path you select. Sort of like how outgoing attachments are handles now.  Maybe you could do the same thing for the messages themselves. Allow each to sort to a folder in a specific place on your hard drive.

I would like to see more useful/helpful descriptions on how to fix problems once errors arise on sending or receiving etc.

Here is a list of things I could do without:

Moodwatch
ESP
Stats
Pure voice

Let us know when there is al alpha out there to test and I will duplicate my eudora in another folder and see how the conversion process works

== Two Login Names ==

I agree with all the requests to keep the email file structure, which I have found very easy to work with for filing emails and to move to new accounts.

My suggestion, which I have not seen mentioned, is to implement separate Login names for receiving and sending mail.  Although virtually all mail account providers make using Eudora in POP3 mode simple, most do not provide sendmail capability or require the use of the account login name to send emails.  My DSL connections will not send mail unless sent with the DSL login.  My current email host, GoDaddy, requires that Login to the POP account be accessed with the entire email address (ecgomez@domain.com) rather than just the user name; so does my current DSL provider (ecgomez@sbcglobal.net) and the two requirements are incompatible.

Having a separate Login name for sending and receiving would solve this problem and avoid switching personalities, etc.  If one has one's own domain, a simple user name such as "Ed" can be used, but such a name is not available on a large domain, such as sbcglobal.net, which one would use to send emails.

I can think of no obvious disadvantage to the separate Login names except the trivial requirement that they both be filled in, even if they are the same.

Ed Gomez

== Screen real estate ==

Besides all the good points that have already been made here I would like to add:

'''Screen real estate'''

One of the things I have always loved about Eudora is the amount of emails I can squeeze into a smallish screen (In my case a PowerBook 15.4"). Eudora is one of the few applications that is still very conservative when it comes to screen real estate. The listings are so compact that you get a really get a good overview of the contents of your inbox. I love it!

Okey, screen resolutions are getting better and better and pixel dimensions larger and larger. But I would like to use those extra pixels to display even more emails and not to display fancy anti-aliased text.

Given that a lot of people here seem to use Eudora to handle large amounts of email I think this is critical. The choice of typeface and the legibility in small sizes of that typeface is definently going to affect my choice of email client for the coming years.

== Sent Attachments and Images ==

This is a feature request. It concerns retention of sent attachments and embedded images. I often grab a portion of my screen as a png or jpg to include in an email when reporting bugs and such to various software vendors. 

With Eudora, when I send an email with embedded or attached images (or attached files) I often want to se what I sent to someone but the embedded images, for whatever reason, are not retained. When I later open one of these sent emails, it may display the sent images but mostly it does not. I have no way to review what I sent. The outgoing email contains a broken image tag and revealing the source shows: <img src="x-eudora-file:P574EFFD9"> or similar. This makes it impossible to see what it was that I sent.

[davidmorr: In the mailbox view, there is a column for attachments. When the message is selected, the attachment icon becomes a popup menu which allows you to open the attachments sent with the e-mail.]

In Penelope, I'd like to see a folder just for keeping archival copies of attached/embedded content such that I can open a sent email later and see the images I sent.

Sometimes embedded images are dragged to the message composition window from whatever folder contains them, other times, they are just pasted in from the clipboard. Either way, Penelope should retain a copy somewhere so that I have a record of what I sent. 

For content that is dragged to the composition window, Penelope can remember the path to the content or (optionally) make a copy of that content. Perhaps an X-penelope-setting can determine which. For pasted-in content, however, Penelope should save a copy of it somewhere permanently (until the original sent email is deleted).

== BLAH BLAH/Editing, Plain Text/HTML ==

BLAH BLAH/Editing 
Penelope needs to retain the BLAH BLAH button for viewing message source and also the [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360975 pencil button to be able to edit the content of received emails.] I use these features A LOT in order to trim messages for archiving. I keep a lot of list postings and such for later reference and the quick availability of editing is crucial. Some mailers hide the ability to view the source where it is not convenient. I don't know if other mailers allow the ability to edit received content, but this is something I'd definitely like to see retained. 

Along the same lines, the ability to [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360976 edit the message subject as it appears in the mailbox window] is also essential. Definitely keep this Eudora feature. 

Web Bugs/JavaScript
Retain also the option to NOT automatically download images from the web! These are often web bugs and I like to remove these using the ability to edit messages before I use the Open In Browser function in the current Eudora. [Mdudziak: Thunderbird / Penelope already does this]

I'm guessing that at some point Penelope will not use the 'Open in Browser' function to view html messages. I hope that when it does the rendering itself, we'll retain the ability to NOT download content that's out on the Internet. Perhaps there could be a button in the message window to display such content, if the option to not display it automatically has been set. [Mdudziak: Thunderbird / Penelope already does this] 

Perhaps there needs to be an option to not execute JavaScript code in html messages as well.[Mdudziak: Thunderbird / Penelope already does this] 

Plain Text/HTML
I'd like to see a setting which allows the user to choose which content to display when a message arrives with both plain text and html. Currently, most mailers discard the less sophisticated content (the plain text version) and display the html version. I would prefer the ability to view the plain text version rather than the html version when a message arrives with both types. Currently, Eudora discards the plain text version of the message. I'd like this to be a user-set option so that those of us who prefer plain text can view email that way whenever possible.[Mdudziak: Thunderbird / Penelope already does this]

== The wish list of a 12 years user of Eudora ==

I'm a Mac user using Eudora since 1994. Here is the list of the features I especially appreciate and need in this software:

1. The quick search filter is a key component. I have about 16'000 e-mails stored since 1994 and the rapid finding of any of them with the Boolean search tool is essential.[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359311 359311]

2. The format of the e-mail boxes (as simple text files!).
This helped me a lot when I crashed my HD last year. I retrieved my recent e-mail messages with a forensic software scanning for text-files and just had to cut and paste this messages in the Eudora box files I had backuped the week before.

3. The fact that the attachments files are located in a disctinct folder.[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359319 359319] 

4. The personality system is very neat (including the [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360971 relay personality]).

5. Ability to display every mailboxes and messages in [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359422 separate windows].

6. The ability to [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359226 "redirect"] instead of "forwarding" e-mails.

7. The spell checker.

8. The Nicknames expansion.

9. The simple visual interface to determine which boxes contains unread messages (by underlining the name).

10. The very complete settings panes.

11. The possibility to edit every message (even the ones in the Inbox !) with the [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360975 "pen" tool].

12. The easy way to see every details of a message with the "BLAH BLAH" icon.

13. The Junk system is easy to use and works fine.

14. The [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359306 "chili pepper"] system is useful, especially when sending e-mails.

15. The stats system.

Moreover, here are just the additional features that could be useful in Penelope from my point of view (for Mac users):

1. Better HTML rendering (using the built in features of OS X).

2. Unicode support.

3. Possibility of starting Penelope with various "profiles". I have indeed two Eudora folders: one with my various private e-mails accounts (various "personalities") and one with my work e-mails. I want them to be totally separated, but a profile manager would be great to choose between "private" and "work" when launching the program.  

4. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359277 OS X Address book] total integration.

5. Universal binary.

Thanks! Nic ([[User:Nwidmer|Nwidmer]] 10:48, 24 October 2006 (PDT); http://www.nwidmer.ch/)

== Release 0.1: Please let Penelope import itself, too ==

With Release 0.1, where importers are created - presumably for Eudora and Thunderbird, in addition to other email programs - it would be great if Penelope could import its own mail and other data that it has previously stored.

This would make it very easy for me to migrate all my stored mails and adresses from my old to my new computer, without having to know all the details on where this data is actually hiding. For example, I could connect my old machine (with Penelope and its data installed on it) to the Intranet and open its partitions for reading. Then install Penelope on the new machine and simply Import my data from the old machine, by clicking on the "File>Import..." menu option and selecting "Penelope" from the list of email programs. Ideally, Penelope on my new machine would then go out and quickly find my old data and copy it into an "Old" folder in its database.

Since Penelope knows itself better than it knows other email programs and data formats, this might be fairly straightforward to implement.

PS: Thanks Eudora!

== A couple of thoughts ==

1) '''UTF-8''' -> it NEEDS to be done and it needs to be '''on top of the list'''!

2) Keep the [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359320 independent addressbook-location(s)]
We have Eudora with a centrally administered address book on the server. This is missing in TB. On the other hand: Improve the handling of changed address books. If I change a central address book, Those Eudoras that are already open will allways get "confused" and display a erroneous addressbook.

3) It may be needed to display Full HTML (with the security options like no downloading from the web, no javascript/active content) but please let us choose the engine. It shouldn't be only MSIE![Mdudziak: Thunderbird / Penelope already does this]

3b) Not every HTML content is supposed/wanted to be displayed. Instead of an all-or nothing approach, there could be a button in each mail to display html version when text-only obiously is incomplete or whatever. Also, why not make it a Mailbox-based option. One can use filters (please keep!) to have those mails KNOWN to be HTML and trustworthy (certain newsletters) moved into a mailbox which has standard option "display HTML".

4) How about [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359319 multiple attachment folders]? Something like one default and (if set) one for each mailbox or at least mail folder). Also, the attachment folders should be allowed to be anywhere (same as with the address books)

5) Data: Please keep it simple. Right now, even from win 2K to XP or Win98 to XP I only have to copy (yes, COPY) the Eudora-Folder to the new system (and maybe network-folders/address books if any). No installation, no import, no hassles!

6) Built-in (or plugin) support to decode the abymsal [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360980 winmail.dat] often sent by incompetent Outlook-Users

== Main feature that kept me using Eudora ==

* Open window memory.

Eudora keeps track of all open windows and their positions, and is able to re-open everything when restarting after the application/system quits or crashes. All other email clients will only re-open the main paneled window.

While I'm here, I'll also state the main thing that has me searching for another client.

* Crappy attachments handling

I now have a directory full of attachments belonging to emails long ago deleted. I can't figure out which attachments belong to current mails and which attachments should have been deleted a long time ago. Furthermore, if an attachment of the same name is in another mail, Eudora will rename it! This means that an exchange of mails discussing and amending an attachment will lead you to have a whole set of attachments of essentially the same file with different names, and you end up mailing a document that wasn't the same name when you started! Please fix this in Penelope.

[Edit by A. Manning: choose "Tools-Options-Attachments-Delete Attachments when emptying trash" to solve your first attachment problem above. For your second problem, this is an essential feature, otherwise many important attachments would be overwritten! - at the bottom of the email itself, you can see clearly the name of any renamed attachment which should avoid confusion.
Cheers,
Andrew]

== Keep the old icons ==

I hate the new icons in the newer Eudora builds and reverted them back to the old icons. They are very good and clear, please don't forget to add them in the penelope project.

The GUI used in eudora is the only GUI for mail clients which does what I want, I hope you guys succeed in porting the feeling of the GUI (fast, pleasant to the eyes, clear, etc.)

Oh and don't forget the splash screen, I love the splash screens.

Also the minimize to tray function in the newest release is crap, I want a 1-click option (click with left-mouse-button on the tray icon and *BAM* instant eudora). 

And is it too much to ask for the Eudora name, it sounds so much better than penelope.

== Keep separate mail boxes and filters ==

My I.P. provides just 2 e-mail addresses per account. Eudora allows me to:
a) use just one for my entire family where with Apples mail, I have to get (pay for)more e-mail addresses, and 
b) Apple Mail filtering is not very rich.

When I travel, It is simple to drag the particular project mail boxes I might need onto a memory stick for use on the road.

I have used Eudora for years, I am an old fart, and do not want to change!

Kent

PS
Also, please continue the silly and inane (and humanizing) comments like the "statue" you will erect in my honour should I register, or your description of complex headers as "Blah, Blah, Blah" etc...
[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360981 360981]

== Yet another wishlist ==

Been using Eudora for many years. Like others, I have thousands of emails in hundreds of mailboxes, several hundred fiters etc. Agree with most points above, but wanted to add:

(1) Can we get a timestamp on when an email was recieved on my machine, as well as when it was sent [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360982 360982]

(2) Can we keep better track of which attachments belong with which emails, particularly to help me delete or archive old attachments

(3) Get rid of the out of memory bug that crashes Eudora if I am running any big optimisation models at the same time on the same machine and get low on memory

I understand that it is hard to keep compatible with the old mbox format and add these, but I am sure you all are quite inventive and creative... the simple file format and separate files for each mailbox make backups much cleaner, and I do copy from one machine to another quite often.

BTW: What will happen to the paid-mode features like ultrafast search and spamwatch in the open source version?

Tim

== Echoed Wishes ==

Per Tim's wishes - I second the second one...

* "Can we keep better track of which attachments belong with which emails, particularly to help me delete or archive old attachments"

This used to be in Eudora Mac under System 9 and below. It was one of the things that kept me running System 9 for so long. I get so many attachements, it was such a relief to be able to look in the Finder's "Get Info" window and look at the comments to see who the attachment was from - even when Eudora wasn't running.

-Kelter

== The Absolute Eudora Users ==

I tend to be pessimistic about certain programs' being revamped.
Especially if the 'new' developers are basically non-users of them.
I can envision this now:  The Penelope developers are salivating over sweeping changes to 'prove' their software engineering expertise upon us hapless users.
We thousands of long time Eudora users (I, for a decade or so) chose Eudora Pro and kept-on using Eudora Pro/Paid, even after sampling from time-to-time most of the 'others' out there, because of entirely what Eudora consists-of.

For one thing, why a name change?
Perhaps this name change has to do with Qualcomm's copyright of the name Eudora?
Oh well, Penelope it is.

Among the many desired previously mentioned features about Eudora, the method and usage of the Label features are superb.
So is the Blah-Blah, Filters, and Personalities, as well as ALL of those Eudora Look & Feel aspects.
As one person mentioned, 'We don't need another rendition of that (clunky) MS Office Outlook', nor any of it's many clunky clones, I might add.
I already have Outlook 2003 and compared to Eudora, it absolutely stinks.

Yes, I have installed and used Thunderbird. As a long time (Paid) Eudora user, I say this: 'You gotta be kidding.  No way does T'bird hold a candle to Eudora!'.
I highly recommend THIS suggestion:

Keep Eudora exactly the way it is, and simply rename it 'Penelope', or whatever.
As in the past make only necessary improved changes as needed for any future upgrades.
If that too is a potential Qualcomm copyright infringement, then unfortunately those many unique Eudora attributes along with it's fantastic Look and Feel' will surely soon disappear.

Meanwhile I strongly suspect that we long time Eudora users will have to keep using Eudora 7.1 until Windows Vista no longer will except any of our future re-installations of it.  Unfortunately even that may happen soon.

-John

Hi John,

check out the names of the Penelope developers (http://wiki.mozilla.org/Penelope#Team_Members) - 5 out of 6 of them are longtime Eudora developers (given time by QUALCOMM to work on Penelope) so your original statement is both incorrect and unfair.

- Andrew

== From a developers perspective ==

I wanted to weigh into the future development of Penelope with my perspective.  I have made a number of setup/install applications using [NSIS http://nsis.sourceforge.net] that automates the deployment, management and cleanup of Eudora installs.  These custom installs would not have been possible if Eudora did not store settings in the current INI format.  I hope to see the continuation of the eudora.ini settings format carried onto Penelope.

I currently use Eudora and IMP webmail for work and Thunderbird, Yahoo Mail and Gmail for my personal E-mail.  The web based E-mail clients have distinct advantages that both Thunderbird and Eudora cannot compete with.  It is my suggestion that Penelope focus development on features that these web based clients can't do well or at all.

Both Thunderbird vs Eudora bring great things to the Penelope table.  I have used IMAP in Thunderbird and it works great.  This is a feature that Eudora greatly needs improved upon.  Thunderbird also has a nice array of extensions/ad-ons.

One very important feature I would like to see remain is the ExtraNicknamesDir setting.  We utilize this feature at work to share a set of address books among multiple computers.[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359320 359320]  The only other way to achieve this is to use LDAP.  I don't want to start a LDAP discussion, but LDAP is not the best solution for maintaining shared contacts.  In reality, there should be something better for managing/sharing contacts.

=== New Feature Proposed: Shared Contacts Protocol ===
What I would like to see is a new protocol that would allow for managing contact information from your E-mail client to a central server.  Here are some guidelines for this new protocol that would make it ideal:

* Use XML-RPC, this would allow the server side to manage the actual storage of the contact information in almost any fashion.
* Use HTTP Authentication, you could setup your server to use the same username/password for E-mail or setup a guest login that has only read access, etc...
* Encourage services such as Gmail and Yahoo Mail to adopt this protocol.  This would allow you to store your contacts in your Gmail account and still use/manage them from your E-mail client (Penelope).

If others think this is a good idea, drop me a line: angelo [at] mandato [dot] com.  If you are a wiki administrator and think this topic is worthy, please link to a new wiki page.

-Angelo



----
----

I am not a developer, but a long time user of Eudora. 

I added to this message as it contained thoughts similar to mine about IMAP and the two clients.

I moved to IMAP and found Eudora unable to cope with this. I had to stop using it. I now find Thunderbird does this well for me in several locations and mobile devices. It seems others have had the same experience. There are features of later Eudora releases I now miss in Thunderbird. I hope Penelope can develop with the same sound IMAP functionality plus features of Eudora.



----

== Hooks for External Spam Filtering (e.g. SpamSieve) ==

My understanding is that SpamSieve does not function with Thunderbird, currently, because no hooks are provided to do so.  I'm simply unwilling to use a mailreader at this point that does not support SpamSieve.  Therefore, I'd like to see Penelope support third-party spam filters, such as SpamSieve, and do so in a *full* manner, as opposed to the way that Eudora does it, which, as I understand, doesn't pass on much information at all about embedded images that can be a useful part of spam filtering, too. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360984 360984]

== Internationalize it! ==

Not one of the first priority things but a very nice thing to have.

Make it international. I know Eudora has been featuring that, but it has always been buggy on my machines, no matter what version of Eudora I used.

So these are my suggestions: 
<ul><li>flawless handling of international charsets</li>
<li>ability to use multiple dictionaries for spell checking and toggle between them or link them to certain stationaries</li>
<li>implementation of existing open source dictionaries (e.g. OpenOffice)</li>
<li>multi-language UI (not too important, but probably easy to implement)</li>
<li>spell check on the fly (nice to have :-)</li></ul>

Other than that, a big thanks to the Eudora team for providing a great email client for so many years and I hope we see the key features mentioned by all the other users in Penelope again.



=== Multiple dictionaries ===
 
Most HTML tags allow for LANG attribute to define the natural language (i.e. English/French/Chinese etc.) of their contents. Use this mechanism to define the language on the message or part of it, then apply appropriate spell checkers. --[[User:Funfilder|Funfilder]] 14:29, 11 November 2006 (PST)

== Rules Engine ==
I have used Eudora on Windows for many years, and its ability to filter has been key.

I typically use POP and transfer everything into my local inbox.  I do not filter the incoming or outgoing POP messages; I set the filter to Manual only.  I then select all messages in my local inbox, then "Filter messages".

I use spambayes (sb_service.exe) as a POP proxy, which adds email headers to indicate whether it thinks a message is spam/ham/unsure.  I filter the SPAM into a separate mbox, which I can later examine and used to train spambayes.  I have about 250 other filters.

It would be nice to have a rule engine or capability that can add an email header with a folksonomy tag.  The ability to group messages by tag would be nice even if the messages are in different mbox's but use the same tag.

After I run my filters, the inbox is empty and all the messages have been moved or copied into other mbox's.  I sometimes want to go into one of these mbox's and further filter that set of messages, but since Eudora has only the one set of filters, I may need to hack at the filters to do what I want.  It would be nice to have a set of filters.  My initial filtering of inbox would use one set.  When I want to further filter another mbox, I would use another set.  I would want a way to quickly pick which filter set I want to use.  Currently I use the a "Filter Messages" button on a toolbar.  Perhaps the ability to have a toolbar button where it is "Filter Messages using Set #1" would do the trick.

So I like the filtering that Eudora has provided, but perhaps there is a way to reuse a more powerful rules engine in Penelope.

I really hope Penelope has a tool to migrate my 250+ Eudora rules to whatever filtering language it uses.

[[User:Lexpauld|Lexpauld]]

== Alt Click ==
Alt-click on sender, subject, label, ... any column is a great feature and I use it all the time.  Please do not lose this capability. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359267 359267]

[[User:Lexpauld|Lexpauld]]

== Moving Attachments ==
Eudora parses a message, strips out the attachments and puts them into a designated folder (Windows).  Over time, this folder grows and grows.  Periodically I move files out of that folder into a different folder (perhaps on CD or DVD).  Eudora then can't find the attachment.  It would be nice to have a way to tell Eudora that the attachments folder for a set of messages has changed, perhaps using a URI rather than a pathname (e.g., in case the attachments are stored somewhere accessible from HTTP).

[[User:Lexpauld|Lexpauld]]


Follow up:

Yes I like this idea above. The ability to move attachements with msgs as the messages change mailboxes. I am not a programmer but was thinking that one solution would be to use the eudora filters to filter all attachments just like other msgs. All messages that go to the eudora "smith folder or mailbox" also filters all the attachments into c:/mydocuments/clients/acmeco/smith-matter  for example. Now when you change the smith folder or rename it in windows explorer or change the eudora mailbox then there is a problem. Not sure how to fox that.

Signed
Another Poster

Another followup:
I definitely agree. The fact that you can't move attachments without killing the link to the email is a major pain in Eudora. My 10-year-old attachments folder is humungous and unwieldy. Every spam attachment I've ever received is in there. A simple improvement would be to allow a parallel structure of attachments to messages, so that when you move a message to the junk folder, for example, the associated attachment moves from a (new) "inbox attachments" folder to a (new) "junk attachments" folder automatically, so it can be easily deleted.
-- A third poster

== Portable Application ==

I am a LONG time user of Eudora but recently I have been using Thunderbird Portable (TBP) and love the ability to have an email client on a USB stick. While I use Eudora on my main desktop PC, I find it necessary for me to send and receive mail throughout the day while away from my main desktop PC. TBP is no Eudora, but it is an acceptable substitute because of its portable nature.

I would very much like to see a [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360987 portable version of Penelope]. So, please... modify Eudora in such a way that it does not write to the Windows Registry and make sure all DLL files reside within the application directory. Please use relative path names don't use specific drive letter mappings.

-Neil

== My 2 wishes:  Database and threads ==

Hi<br> I am a long time Eudora user. I get about 4,000 emails a day and Eudora is having problems with that.  My fix is<br>
1.  Create an option to store the emails in a real database like SQL server or any ODBC capable format.   My inbox and folders gets scrambled occasionally which makes it impossible to tell which messages were read.  Wastes many hours. I have to manually compact my mailboxes many times a day.

2. The UI isn't responsive when downloading a lot of mail. I would create either a new thread or a completely differently program to download the mail, and a seperate thread or program to allow me to read it

thanks

------------------

Just to add support to these two ideas.

We don't get that many emails a day, but it is several hundreds most days, and we also have to keep manually compacting mailboxes. Our boxes only seem to get scrambled when Eudora crashes with "out of memory" errors or similar if we are doing intensive processing at the same time, but it is hideous to sort out when it happens. A good database implementation for mailboxes could have real advantages for some of us in terms of performance, scalability and stability.

Multithreading is going to grow in importance with the appearance of so many more multi-core chips. We might as well make use of them...

Tim

== Thoughts on Eudora ==


Many of these have already been mentioned but here are my thoughts to this point:

--> There is very little, if anything, in the current Mac version of Eudora that I would eliminate. Primarily, I would add/improve features.

--> Keep the [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359422 multiple windows], like the current Mac version, rather than a single window with multiple panes. Multiple windows allows for more individual flexibility. Adding the **option** to use a single-window, multiple-pane view would be nice.

--> I like the option to use a preview pane and the ability to quickly turn that on and off using the arrow in the bottom left of a pane is really nice.

--> Add accurate html rendering.

--> Provide live access to the [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359277 Mac address book] -- add, delete, edit Address Book entries from within Eudora as well as reflect changes made within Address Book

--> Continue ability to use tabbed windows like the current Mac version

--> Continued strong support for multiple mail accounts/personalities. Eudora is much easier to use in this respect than Mail, Entourage, Outlook or any other e-mail client I've ever used. Because of some mailing lists that I manage, I currently have 38 personalities set up.

--> Add additional filtering arguments -- two is insufficient

--> Retain [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359267 option-click grouping] for "Who" and "Subject" -- extend to other fields such as read/unread, attachments, importance level

--> Improve import/export capability for both mail and addresses for a variety of other e-mail clients. Export for addresses is less important if there is tight integration with the Mac Address Book.

--> Keep the [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360988 statistics] -- tweak a bit to make clearer. For instance, in sent-mail stats, have the first be Total Mail Sent with sub-stats for New Mail Generated, Reply-to, Forwarded, Redirected, Sent Again, etc.

--> ABSOLUTELY keep the Redirected function.[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359226 359226]

--> Select and quote non-contingent text in both replies and forwards would be a helpful feature.

--> Retain the ability to change to text-only on the fly. Because a number of the people with whom I correspond live overseas in places where e-mail is expensive, I can save them (and our organization) money by sending text-only e-mail.

--> Add contextual menus

Bob Allen

== Tool Tips ==

Adding in Tool Tips for all the various features of Eudora would go a long way to helping new and intermediate users get up to speed with all of the functionality of Eudora.

== A Few Key Points ==

Like many others, I've used Eudora since the early 1990s, primarily on Windows. What I do for a living puts my email addresses out there, and I get many thousands of messages a day. Eudora is the only package that can cope with that. Here are the reasons why I use Eudora:

1. Personalities. It's a tough feature to describe, but a very powerful one that lets you manage your email through the use of multiple addresses.

2. The ability to display multiple mailboxes, and to filter both inbound *and* outbound messages to those mailboxes. This makes it easy to capture both sides of an email thread in one mailbox. Most other emailers can only capture mail sent to you that way. To explain this another way, my In mailbox receives very little mail. I use a combinations of filters that identify personalities (and other factors) to identify all the mail that's sent to me and sort them to folders that frequently have people names or company names. The mail folders that matter open up automatically.

3. Separating attachments from messages in the mail store, and the simple text nature of Eudora mailbox files. I love the fact that I can send mailbox files to another Eudora user who can then drop those mailboxes in his or her Eudora installation and open the messages they contain. 

Those are three of my required features, but there are many things about Eudora that have been begging for improvement for years:

1. While I think many of us like having a lot more than three windows, a better window management system would be a boon. 

2. The configuration settings are a mess. That should just be ripped up and started all over. Let's get rid of things that don't matter, and add UI for newer things, like SMTP auth, and so on, that do.

3. The address book is very weak.

4. Third-party plug-ins support could use help, and better outbound communication to those developers.

5. The X1 search is nice and fast, but its index is gigantic.

6. Many of the best features in Eudora aren't very discoverable. The user interface is quirky at best. We all know it and don't think twice about it, but most people who try it these days absolutely hate it.

7. I love the mail-filtering rules; my installation has literally hundreds of them and they've saved me hours and hours of time by storing things for me that I didn't need to read now, and making sure I saw things I absolutely needed to see. We need more than two data variables, though. Three would be better.

8. Eudora's HTML support is weak. When you forward an HTML message, it breaks down to rich text. HTML support should be an option. But those who use it deserve better support than Eudora currently offers.

Eudora has enormous potential. It needs to be easier to learn how to use while retaining its power.

== Phoning home ==

It is possible to disable "Phoning home"?  Spam messages often have a URL which contains ones email address.  If one opens such a message, Eudora will fetch the URL and thus validate your email address to the spammer.  [[User:Pstudier|Pstudier]] 14:11, 4 November 2006 (PST)

ANSWER:

The Current Eudora allows you to prevent phoning home: 

Windows Eudora: Tools->Options->Display, Uncheck 'Automatically download HTML graphics'

Mac Eudora: Special->Settings->Fonts & Display, Uncheck 'Automatically download HTML graphics'

Thunderbird, and thus Penelope also allows you to block this type of thing. In the 'General' section of the 'Privacy' settings, see the 'Block loading of remote images in mail messages' option. [[User:Mdudziak|Mdudziak]]

Thanks for the suggestion, but if one uses the Microsoft's Viewer under Viewing Mail, this does not stop phoning home.  If one does not use this, then HTML does not come out right at all.  Surely, an email client could make a distinction between HTML in the message and additional HTML that has to be fetched. [[User:Pstudier|Pstudier]] 23:04, 18 November 2006 (PST)

== Best reasons I stay with Eudora ==

Definite "keep" features that keep me using Eudora (for many years, currently with  62,000 messages in over 420 mailboxes, 25 personalities):

1. Ability to [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360975 use "pencil" to edit text in received message]

2. Ability to [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360976 edit incoming subject line] is VERY useful, especially when this is able to be used as a sort feature

3. Multiple personalities -- ability to use them, also change on the fly for outbound messages

4. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359260 Filter to change personality] depending on various incoming settings and use that personality in replies

5. Super-fast [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359311 indexed searching]

6. Attachment file handling in separate folder; also like ability to rename/specify location of attachment directory [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359319 359319]

7. Eudora mailbox handling is obvious as it is and easy to backup

8. Like ability to edit some Eudora files if required (eg RCPdbase.txt, eudora.ini) to fix any display discrepencies (eg, when Eudora recipient list includes address book entries that were previously deleted)

9. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359226 "Redirect" by-way-of option], although I see there is a Thunderbird extension for this

10. UI tweaking to be able to directly edit "from" address etc.

11. Blah Blah button to inspect full mail header

12. Use nickname of multiple recipient address book entry as display in "to" field for all recipients, hiding email addresses.

'''Annoyances'''

a. Reinstate ability for pop-up Attachment window to be re-sized in standard windows interface, when exploring folders/files for attaching a file to an email message! This is extreme UI annoyance.

b. Ability to edit quote prefix characters/positioning, and intro text

c. Right-click anywhere on a task in progress to stop that task. Yin/yang symbol "stop all tasks" not a suitable replacement for feature that was implemented better in earlier versions of Eudora

'''Features on my wishlist...'''

A. Better handling of message formatting and display when forwarding HTML formatted messages. This is currently awful and seems to work abysmally. I forward a HTML message and it instantly loses much of its formatting. Both Thunderbird and MS products do much better in this regard. This is a product-killer for me and is very nearly a reason to stop using Eudora, despite features I love (above).

B. Separate SMTP/POP settings in each personality as a separate selection: eg when creating the SMTP setting have an option to choose a pre-defined setting or manual entry -- like personalities but for SMTP/POP. Then updates can just be made easily to particular "SMTP/POP personality". This would extend on the "use relay personality if defined" option to be able to define common SMTP/POP settings. Eg, if I have 12 personalities all with a particular ISPs outgoing SMTP setting, and then change ISP, all 12 have to be edited manually -- would rather just update "SMTP personality setting" to the new info.

C. Increased ability to use labels beyond current color scheme and limit of 7 options; perhaps with use of 16x16 pixel .png icons like favicons in web environment.

D. Like Thunderbird's blocking of HTML content (like Google mail) in incoming messages, allowing me to manually override or set filter/automatic override.

E. Handling of multiple attachments at once. Often I move/copy attachments to other places on a network (eg, sent five photos, all need to be copied to network photo assets folder -- currently have to either (a) explore the attachments folder outside of Eudora interface, or (b) manually complete one-by-one within Eudora. Would like a checkbox feature next to attachment filename to be able to perform move/copy/delete the selected attachments.

F. Google-style message content preview on subject line would be a nice option.

G. Seeing as it's a wishlist (dreaming here), would LOVE to see Mach5 Mailer type "merge" feature -- ability to send multiple recipient personalized messages that have personalized subject line, message content (plain-text and html) and also attachment list on individual message basis. Data source may be based on entries in the address book, a linked ODBC database or spreadsheet. However, I think this is a major departure from standard usage of Eudora and would happily keep using Mach5 Mailer as a separate product. But hey, it's a wishlist. Even basic personalization would be a good integrated add-on. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360989 360989]

== S/MIME, S/MIME, S/MIME ==
I had to move several of my Mac users from Eudora to T-bird simply because of the ability to sign and encrypt e-mail.  If this is brought over from Windows Eudora 7.1 to Penelope for all platforms, I can move them back!!


Eudora 7 with the S/MIME plugin is able to deal with signed messages, but there are a lot of operations to do just to read a signed message. Why use an attachment that we have to decode ? In most cases, we are interested by the message itself, not the signature. So why not to display the message with an advice about the verified (or unverified) signature ?

== What kept me from switching to Tbird ==

I have tried a while ago to switch to Tbird, but it lacked some features important to me and had to give up. So now I run Eudora+wine: 

* SMTP settings per account/personality. Tbird is simply broken here.

* Ability to switch personality for outgoing emails.

* Dockable panes. I _need_ my email boxes at right. 

* The directory structure, including folder for decoded attachements. 

* Plain text mboxes. Too bad the mbox format is slightly modified from standard, but it works fine. (ok, Tbird is plain text too).

== Multiple Recipients ==

Penelope should retain Eudora's ability to use a nickname (mailing list) and optionally '''not''' expand the the nickname in the To: field.  This can not only maintain the privacy of those on the list, but can prevent a To: field that runs many pages.  That is especially annoying when there are a lot of recipients but the message itself is very small. --[[User:Hapster|Hapster]] 14:03, 8 November 2006 (PST)

[I tried editing my previous comment and something went wrong.  Sorry for any confusion.]

== developer ready to help ==

I'd like to join the open source effort around Eudora.  I wrote to Steve Dorner (on the Eudora page it suggested writing to one of the existing team members) but haven't heard back; maybe I got filtered as spam :)

Anyway, if some of you are reading this, ping me (eudora at glennreid dot com) and we can talk.  Here's the note I sent to Steve:

Hi Steve,

I've been using Eudora for a long, long time (and paying for it, of course :)).  Nice job, by the way.  I'm a big fan, and even have my Mom using Eudora (she's 81 and has a sweet 17" PowerBook).

I'm also a very experienced app developer (Apple's iMovie and iPhoto are probably my best-known work).  I'd like to help with the development of the open-source Eudora.  I'm mostly a Mac guy these days but quite proficient on Windows and UNIX as well.  I'm good at cross-platform architectures, low-level TCP/IP networking, protocols, building usable apps, all kinds of stuff that will probably come in handy.

I'm working at Adobe Systems nowadays in the Advanced Technology Group but I don't think there's a any conflict in my working on Eudora in my spare time, so if you need/want some help, I'd love to get involved.

Glenn Reid

== Keep the possibility to have mailboxes at random locations ==

I love this Eudora feature. Just 2 uses: 

I have the mailboxes with confidential contents on an encrypted disk image (Mac). 

I have made the mailboxes of my boss to appear within the Eudora of his secretary: just set up the read-only access onto the folder containing his mailboxes and bound them into her Eudora account. --[[User:Funfilder|Funfilder]] 11:36, 11 November 2006 (PST)

== Editing incoming mails and adding notes ==

Possibility to edit incoming mails is a useful feature of Eudora. E.g., I would replace a PGP "garbage" by the decrypted text, or just correct some contents. However, it would be always nice to know what was exactly in the original mail.

Here my proposal how to have your cake and eat it, too: Editing a mail creates a '''copy''' of it. Just a line is added to header of the original mail, looking like "''X-Penelope-EditedCopy: location=XYZ''". In the mail browser, you may select between the original and the edited copy. The same mailbox would be a reasonable place to keep the edited copy.

Now, you see that technically, the edited copy is just some text linked to the original message. In the same way, it should be possible to attach '''any''' text to the message: that is, '''notes'''. --[[User:Funfilder|Funfilder]] 12:47, 11 November 2006 (PST)

== Customize incoming mail display ==

Current Eudora has the "When receiving styled mail, pay attention to" settings. These save my sanity all the time! Crazy Outlook users send emails in pink color, weird fonts, microscopic size, whatever all the time -- an insult to the eyes. Eudora just gets rid of the crap and displays this text in its default style. This feature should be kept. [[User:Maurits|Maurits]] 14:17, 11 November 2006 (PST)

== Filter and search enhancements; smart folders ==

Though Eudora filtering capabilities may be superior to other programs, there is a lot of room for improvement. Here are some ideas (which would actually equally apply to Thunderbird):

Every filter allows unlimited number of conditions. For managing multiple conditions, I like how they implemented it in [http://www.econtechnologies.com/site/Pages/ChronoSync/chrono_overview.html ChronoSync] (a file synchronization software for Mac, shareware). There are three type of interface: simple - all conditions with either AND, or OR matching, then intermediate, with a graphic interface and possibility to group conditions, and then advanced, allowing for any Boolean expressions.

A filter can depend on another filter as a condition, like "''If (filter 'business partner' is triggered) AND (subject: contains 'meeting')...'' "

The filter browser shows all filters ordered by execution order or according to other attributes. Filters can be combined into groups. Filters can be searched. Filters or filter groups can be de-activated. Filters allow for multiple actions.

Some filters can be stored in a different place. In this way, it would be possible to put some filters centrally on a server to be used by everybody in the organization. (Storing filters in a XML file would enable having some parts in a different place; probably a local cache to improve speed and for the case of server unavailability).

Among the attributes of a filter are filter name, creation, last change, and "last triggered" dates, possible comments, Incoming/Outgoing/Manual, label...

If a certain filter has been triggered on a message, include information about this event into a header, like "''X-Penelope-FiltersTriggered: 'business partner', 'meeting', 'XY company' date='2008-01-01 12:05''' ".  (These headers should be of cause automatically stripped on forwarding the mail)

See also a Thunderbird [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=263441 RFE]

Current Eudora behavior specifies that: "When you check for mail, Eudora recognizes which incoming messages are junk, and those messages are filtered into the Junk mailbox. Your incoming mail goes through the Junk filter before any other filter you may have set up." Enhanced versions should have a flag to specify filter ordering - for example, my filters should run before the Eudora Bayesian filters, because I get too many false positives with the Eudora filtering running first.

=== Search and filters integration ===

As filtering and searching are very similar actions, the interface should also be similar/integrated. Searching using previously defined filters and saving search as a filter should be possible. Applying a filter or filter group to search results should be possible.

=== Smart folders ===

With information in the message headers about filter or search triggered on each message, it should be possible to have smart folders Mac-style (saving search as a smart folder). Indexing message headers could be useful (presumably easier to implement then indexing everything like in Eudora 7). --[[User:Funfilder|Funfilder]] 15:04, 11 November 2006 (PST)

== Additional suggestions for Eudora -> Penelope ==

Here a few additional suggestions for the future Penelope

- a "light" version that can be installed on a Palm or a Blackberry and can be used to connect to the POP3 and SMTP servers of the ISP with which the user has subsbcription (there was an Eudora-2-Go, but (i) it worked only with Verizon and in the US...; (ii) I do not see it anymore...);

- the possibility for each personality to have distinct receiving and sending logins (so as to avoid having to use a relay personality, which makes the configuration more compex and, therefore, more difficult to implement by non tech-savy users...);

[Mdudziak: Thunderbird (and thus Penelope) already supports separate configurations for smtp servers, so you can have separate sending/receiving usernames and passwords. This does not, however, alleviate the need for a Relay Personality completely, as users still need a way to say 'I'm at home now, and my home ISP does not allow me to connect out on port 25 to other mail servers, so instead of using the smtp server associated with this account (which requires port 25), use the smtp server associated with my current ISP'.]

I'd also support several other suggestions made in this forum, but mainly

- the possibility to have different folders for the attachments (may be one attachment folder for every mailbox, to avoid having only one, gigantic attachment mailbox with all attachments mixed up ...)

- the possibility to use different langage dictionaries and to easily switch from one to another (as in WORD).  This is important for persons who need to use different langages depending on whom they write to ...)    

Bornival

== Suggestions for new Eudora ==

- to set the smtp port and pop port for every personalities [Mdudziak: Thunderbird / Penelope already does this] 

- to be able to change name to the personalities [Mdudziak: Thunderbird / Penelope already does this] 

- fast [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359311 indexed search] (like x1 search)

== Sorting mailboxes ==

All mail programs allow you to choose which field messages are sorted on in the mailbox window. Some allow you to choose whether they are sorted in ascending or descending order.

Only Eudora, however, seems to allow sorts with multiple criteria. For example, click on the heading of the Who column in the mailbox window. The hold the Shift key and click on the Date heading. Messages will then be sorted by sender, then by date within each sender.

Sometimes this is extremely valuable.
davidmorr 20-Nov-2006

--------------
One great thing of Eudora is when you put messages in a mailbox and sort them by Date, you will have the message you sent and just after, the message you received, a very great feature !

All the other mail programs seems to sort by Outgoing Date OR Incoming Date, not on an index base on merged dates.

Martin  13-Avr-2007
--------------

== More on filters ==

Just to expand on some earlier comments...

When a filter list gets too long, it is almost impossible to find a given filter, and even to figure out where to add a new one. Some sort of structure would make it much more manageable. One possibility would be a hierarchical structure where filters could be grouped. So I could have groups of filters for managing messages for the various activities I am involved with. For example, I might have something as simple as Home and Work, or I might have more categories such as Tennis, Football, Computer Club, Family History, Frequent Flyers, Clients, Suppliers, etc. Ideally, groups could be nested within groups.

[2007-04-06 Filter List Structure -  In Eudora you can create a "Heading" in the list of filters. In the Upper 'Match' section create the filter just as an Incoming filter and then do the following :  Header: {type anything you want, Family, Friends, Tennis, Blocked Domains, Banking, etc .....}    Now move down to the 'Actions' section and in the 1st action box {Make Label and choose a color you like}.   Save the filter. You now have a 'filter' that performs no action other than making the text you typed in the Header area the color you chose.  Use this 'filter' as a section separator/header for related filters. I have about 40 of these in my filters list to organize filters pertaining to family / friends / banking / projects / domains I don't want mail from / tradespeople / shopping sites / newsletters / magazines , etc.    E-mail Guy]


I would like to see the ability to filter messages that have been detected as spam (ie, the spam number is greater than the threshold). At present, they end up in the Junk mailbox without any chance to apply a filter. If the other filters could be run, messages that match a filter should be unmarked as spam and follow the filter action. (I am thinking here of, say, a mailing list, which is filtered into its own mailbox. Even if a message was detected as spam, the filter would put it where it belongs rather than the Junk mailbox.)

Another useful filter would be when you want to do something to existing messages once only. Doing a search to identify the messages, then manually doing the action is certainly possible for some things, eg, setting the label colour for all messages older than a year. But what if you want to forward a bunch of messages to someone without having to forward them individually? A temporary filter could do this easily - select the messages, invoke the temporary filter, set any selection criteria, set the action to Forward, and click Go.

It would probably also be useful to be able to select individual filters from the existing list. For example, if you create a new filter but want to get all the messages that you have already received processed by the filter also. You could select just that filter to be applied.

(Note that if you just create the new filter, then run all filters as at present, there can be unexpected side-effects, eg, where you have changed messages from where the filter initially put them, they will go back to what the filter determined.)

And to finish off, add a filter action to execute a script (AppleScript on Mac) or other application to allow more complex manipulations of e-mail messages.
davidmorr 20-Nov-2006

== RSS Feed Reader ==

Thunderbird includes an RSS Feed Reader that manages and displays your rss topics much the same way as e-mail. I'd like to see something like this in a future version of Eudora.

== My wishlist: KIS please. ==

Here's my wish list and comments:

Number one: Keep it Small and Simple. Some people seem to be asking for a very rich client; Thunderbird and other clients already fill that niche well. There is almost nothing I really need that's not in Eudora 3. Liberal use of extensions for non-core features will allow those people to bloat it up, and users like me to have a stripped-down client.

No Newsreader. Please. See number one.

No RSS client. See number one.

No Threading - takes too much horizontal real estate, and isn't that useful when you can't view all sides of the communication (inbox - outbox) at once. Sort by subject is good enough for me.  See number one.

Keep the Eudora mailbox file structure/methods, as much as possible. Prefer Eudora TOC methods over  X-Mozilla-Status headers.

Attachments Handling: For me, this is the "can't live without" feature of Eudora. I'd be content with the current methodology, but it would be nice to have more sophisticated handling of attachments, so that they could be more easily organized in folders without breaking the links.

Plain Text Oriented: Anything that makes it easier to read and send as plain text is a good thing. If an extension existed to reliably strip HTML formatting from incoming messages, I'd use it. 

Portable: shouldn't depend on registry entries, so that you can copy the Penelope folder to another computer, and it works.

Multiple Accounts: I never cared for Eudora's personalities model, and have always used separate instances of Eudora instead. I'll continue that if I can, hopefully without Thunderbird-style profiles. For the all-in-one model, I think Thunderbird accounts work better, so suggest using that instead.

Keep blah blah blah button for extended headers; "view source" should work like Thunderbird.

I like the ability to edit incoming messages, but would like the ability to edit headers too, so I don't have to hack the mailbox file. Example: I get an email from someone whose computer clock is days off. I want to change the date to show when it was actually sent, for proper sorting. Currently, I have to create a junk mailbox, move the message to that mailbox, edit the date outside of Eudora, delete/recreate the TOC, move it back to it's original mailbox, then delete the junk mailbox.

Thanks for reading, and thanks to Qualcomm for committing people and resources to this.

===YES, YES, YES...===

I agree with all of the above.  I have been reading this list with a deepening sense of forboding over the amount of bloatware being requested on top of a program that was once prized for it's simplicity.

I have been using Eudora since way-before-Qualcomm, when a bug report was answered personally by Steve within an hour.  The amount of (IMHO) irrelevant stuff which has ben piled on the original (Bosswatch, Moodwatch, etc. etc.) has been overwhelming and no doubt has been part of the reason why it can no longer be maintained.

Please resist the temptation to make this look like yet another Outhouse.  Otherwise I will have to continue using an old version of Eudora until Microsoft will no longer allow it to be run.



== By All Means *Heavy* on the KISS ==
I also feel the sense of foreboding over all of the "features" being requested.  Of particular interest to me is keeping the relative ease of setting up multiple instances on my home computer.  My wife and I use the same computer and security is not an issue.  It looks like almost everyone here is trying to make something difficult from a very easy to use client.  (User of Eudora 4.x for Win since 1996)

G. R. "Bob" Main

== request - Stationery ==

Not finding any reference to it so far -

Really like the way stationary is handled in Eudora.

Wonldn't want to see it forgotten.


I would like to have the option of replying with a stationery file to a certain condition (filter) but so that the original e-mail is NOT included in the reply as often replying to a ten page e-mail and sending ten pages is unnecessary.

== Netscape and Mozilla again? ==

Reading through the suggestions here, there are great features requested to add to the existing Eudora functionality. If implemented, this will make Penelope an even greater e-mail client than Eudora.

However there are also a lot of suggestions that will make Penelope something "much more than" Eudora. The question is - do we really want something much more than Eudora?

Eudora is a great e-mail client. It does nothing else but handle e-mail, and handles it exceptionally.

Many other e-mail clients do other things on the basis that they are "similar to e-mail". Usenet newsgroups is the most common. If this functionality is in such great demand, why are there so many people passionate about continuing to use Eudora when it doesn't do this? Why haven't they changed to another e-mail client ages ago?

There are now requests for things like RSS readers and "Penelope for Blackberry".

Really, these seem to be comments on the poor standard of software to do those things, and wishes for something that works as well for them as Eudora does for e-mail.

But if Penelope is extended to do all these things, with a lot of compromises to keep the task manageable, will it still work well for e-mail? Will it be the "best e-mail client around"?

We don't have to look too far into the past to see examples of trying to do everything in one program - Netscape and Mozilla. It was soon realised that this produced a result that was satisfactory for no-one.

This led to the separation of web browser and e-mail into Firefox and Thunderbird. Ironically, the latter is now being used as the base for Penelope which some people seem to want to build back into Mozilla or Netscape!

There could even be a case for *not* carrying some Thunderbird features over to Penelope in order to simplify the user interface and streamline the code. Usenet news reading is a case in point.

Perhaps this is something that should be listed as a "bug" for people to vote on:

Should Penelope be an e-mail client only, and not do Usenet, RSS, Blackberry, etc?

davidmorr 21-Nov-2006

I agree with this comment - if everything being suggested here is added into the new system, it will probably end up hideously bloated and most people will not use most of the features. Keep it clean and simple if possible, focussed on email and only email, but do it so breathtakingly well that we'll all be delighted with the move.

There is really no reason to include things like RSS and news groups in Eudora - they are different enough that they are better handled by a specific program.

Tim 18th Dec 2006

== Add a "sent to" column into the in-box as an optional feature ==

I would like to suggest a feature, that is missing in Eudora up to now: In the listing of received e-mails I would like to be able to add a new column "sent to". So I am able to see, to which of my email account a specific e-mail was sent to. That would help me to continue having only one "in-box" for more than one e-mail account. 

obefritz 21-Nov-2006


[Mdudziak:]Thunderbird (and thus Penelope) already has this feature.

== Tourette's Syndrome Eudora ==

Don't lose x-eudora-setting:319=32.  Really.

== PGP ==

It would be nice to have full PGP integration with Penelope.  Currently, we only have plaintext PGP functionality through the Services menu in Mac OS X.  GnuPG doesn't work so well because of the line ending mismatches.  Full PGP/MIME functionality would be greatly appreciated.

== Popup menus in mailbox/search result windows ==

This is something I don't use all that often, but when I do it is extrememly useful.

In the mailbox window, or in the search results window, in Mac Eudora there are columns for various things. Many of them are special. If the message is selected, the entry in the column becomes a popup menu.

In some cases, this allows you to change the value, eg, the message status, priority or label. In other cases, it gives you access to things that are not otherwise accessible.

Two in particular are very useful. If a message has attachments, the icon in the Attachments column reveals a menu with the names of the attachments, and selecting one opens that file. (This is critically important since it is the only way to find out what attachments were sent with the message. The attachments used to appear in the sent message, but for the last few versions, this has disappeared.)

The second is in the search results window, where there is a column for the mailbox. When the message is selected, this becomes a popup menu that shows the hierarchy of folders containing the message. This is very useful if you want to find something else in the same mailbox, or even if you just want to know where the mailbox is located.

So these popup menus are fairly important for efficient use of Eudora.

Thunderbird does not appear to have any similar functionality. Right clicking on a message just gives a contextual menu with pretty much the same options as the Message menu.

davidmorr 23-Nov-2006

== Source Code ==

Is/will the Eudora source code, as provided to Mozilla, be made public for anyone to download.. e.g. for the creation of a spin-off project ? If not can it please be.


[Mdudziak: The _Eudora_ source code will not be made public, at least not in whole. Parts _may_ be incorporated into Penelope and will thus be public as the Penelope project is open source. There is simply too much non-open-source (licensed) code in the Eudora source to release it publicly.]


[BobK: How about any header files necessary to read the .toc format? I've searched the web and found many people who have tried to deduce this format with various degrees of success.]

== Junk Folder ==

One thing that I would like to see is the ability to remove Junk mail sooner, without having to manually select the emails and delete them.  Because of problems with my ISP's email filters catching REAL emails, I've had to have them turn off all my spam filtering.  Thus, I get 100+ junk emails per day.  Eudora is doing a great job of catching them; however, the program rules require Junk folder items to stay at least one day before they can be automatically deleted (or one can use the Delete Old Junk button).  I wish I could set it so that the Delete Old Junk button overrides the daily (auto) setting, and immediately clears the folder.

Also, I don't see a compelling reason to send the Junk to the Trash, thus requiring a second step (emptying the Trash).  While I understand that some users like or need the extra protection against throwing out valid emails, an option to directly kill Junk would be great.

-Bruce Wahler (drawbars)


[Mdudziak: I think Penelope will already do much of this for you. Thunderbird (Penelope) allows you to set, on a mailbox-by-mailbox basis, how long to retain messages. You have the options of:
[ ] Use server defaults

( ) Don't delete any messages

(*) Delete all but the last xx messages

( ) Delete messages more than xx days old

[ ] Always delete read messages

]

== Another Nice Feature to retain ==

I don't think this has been mentioned on this forum yet. I like how Eudora puts the recepient for all _outgoing_ mail in italics when it is moved from the outbox to another folder. I haven't seen this in other email applications (but perhaps I am wrong). I can tell at a glance what I wrote from something that someone else sent to me--Jones in italics means I sent it to Jones, Jones in regular type means Jones sent it to me. This is one of the main reasons I could not continue using Thunderbird or Apple Mail. 

[Vote for [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359269 359269]]

== Drag and drop? ==

There are a few mentions of drag and drop above, but I don't see much about it in the bug list.  Am I missing it?  I'd like to see Penelope support drag and drop in all the places that Mac Eudora supports it:  drag and drop of a closed message to another mailbox and to the desktop, drag and drop of an open message to another mailbox and to the desktop, drag and drop to attach attachments and to copy downloaded attachments to a new location.  I believe you can also drag and drop graphics inline into the body of a message, although I don't use this feature myself.  I'm sure I'm missing other ways that Eudora Mac uses drag and drop.  Are these feasible for Penelope?

== What I like and what I would like. (I'm on Eudora for Mac.) ==

What I like best about Eudora is the structure of it's address book. I love the way it allows you to add additional address books, and not have to see just one long list.

What I would like to see added to the new program is a way to make the background of a message in color (so it gets viewed that way) without making it a setting. Good html and graphic control is important to me professionally. I don't want to have to go to AOL to get it.

Though it says it can, Eudora can't import my Mac address book. Adequate importing features would be necessary for me to use it as a default mail program.

While I'm dreaming, I would love to have the ability to duplicate any message. Using the Mac. Command D key would be ideal.

=== Additional items (Feel weird editing somebody else's item, but it is a wiki, and the suggestion says edit in place) ===

*Support for Growl (vote: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363762)
*Filters that can change personality (at the least) BEFORE the message is sent (vote for [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361321 361321]


----
Maybe we should start an OS X specific thread?

== IMPORTING MAIL FROM THUNDERBIRD TO EUDORA ==

Although Thunderbird recognizes Eudora for imports, Eudora does not recognize Thunderbird's mail folders or address book. Switching from Tbird to Eudora effectively means running two email programs until the older one contains no more useful files!

==BUILT-IN EDITOR VS MY EDITOR ==

One thing that drives me crazy in ALL email programs (with the exception of Emacs) is that they lack the ONE correction feature that is always incredibly useful. The same goes for almost all word processing programs.
The most common typing error is a transposition of two adjacent letters. In Emacs (and Epsilon), CTRL-T will swap them. 
What would be nice to have in the new Penelope is

either an implementation of this feature
or the ability use one's preferred editor
(or both).

== S/MIME for Mac ==

Will the open-source release of Eudora for the Mac, at some point, support encryption and signatures using standards such as S/MIME, as  T-bird does now?  This is the one new feature that would make Eudora the perfect email client where I work.

The most important current features in Eudora, from my point of view, are:

1. Fast Boolean search over hundreds (or thousands) of mailboxes and hundreds of thousands of messages.  <rant>Mail.app is totally worthless in this respect!</rant>

2. Mailboxes are text files that can be renamed and moved around in the filesystem, without opening Eudora.  A user-configurable directory tree that provides as many levels of hierarchy as you need is the key to organizing a big email folder (mine is close to 1 GB, with more than 11 years' worth of email, and I'm sure there are many other users with even more).  (So why would anybody need to keep old emails?  Because they are a more accurate record of discussions and decisions than people's memories.)  

3. Attachments can be stored in a separate, user-chosen directory.  I like to search the current attachments folder and archived attachments folders by document name, contents and date without opening Eudora.  Also, separating attachments from messages keeps down the size of the mailboxes.

== Long time Windows Eudora User's wishlist ==

I use Outlook at work and for a short time, used Thunderbird on a U3 drive, but for myself I use Eudora and have for over 10 years. There are some must-haves for me in the new incarnation:

1. Signatures. I '''LOVE''' having the ability to change sig files depending on my mood. I have about 30 of them and would like more, with graphics.

2. Multiple "personalities."  I have email accounts on many servers and need to be able to check them all and bring them in to one set of Inboxes

3. The Inbox feature. I don't want the monolithic database format of Outlook

4. The UI. I want to have the ability to have different windows open instead of that ugly tri-pane setup of Outlook and Thunderbird

5. I want to have Penelope portable to a U3 drive, like Thunderbird is now.

6. One change I would like to see is how attachments are handled. I would like the attachments to be stored in the same directory as the email message, and all attachments associated with a message deleted when the message is deleted. The never-ending pile of undifferentiated files in the attach folder is a pain and keeps the whole structure more bloated than it should be.

7. And now for the pony: I want a "universal" address book. Windows and Microsoft go for ubiquitous, but not universal, with Outlook. I want one place that can interact with phones, mail merge in most major word processing programs, as well as email. Names, addresses, email, web pages, multiple phone numbers, etc. In this context I'm not worried about "secure" but about interoperability.

== Proposal to aid development of filters and connectivity ==
If Penelope is going to compete it will need top notch import and connectivity options. I'd like to propose the creation of a wiki for various email file formats and protocols. Several different formats(different mime and uuencoding, ) are documented in various places on the web as well as protocols (httpmail, exchange, groupwise). To have a central repository for this information with the addition of knowledge from eudora's filters would be a big win.

== Duplicating and moving filters ==

Under the assumption that filter import from Eudora will be fully supported, my highest priority request is that copy, cut, and paste be implemented for filters. This would greatly facilitate:

# Duplicating a filter (with all check box and pull-down menu selections, and text entries) and
# Moving selected filters up or down the filter list. 

The current methods for doing these tasks have been the single most tedious aspect of my experience with Eudora to-date.

== Multiple Undos ==

Feature Reminder: '''Multiple Undos''' currently present in Eudora WIN but not in Eudora MAC (a very useful feature when composing e-mails)

== Another thought - attachments to only some recipients ==

Something that has occurred to me several times is that it would be useful to have a facility for sending an email to multiple users, but only include the attachments to a subset of the users. It would be useful for me because I often end up sending a bundle large attachments to several people, and also need to keep others aware of what is going on. They need to see that the email has been sent and that thare was an attachment (with the file name etc.), but they really don't want the attachment as well.

This could be done with something like a separate CC-without-attachments line in the email client window. Then the email client could automatically send out two versions of the email - one with the attachment and one with just the name of the attachment.

== Outgoing Filters ==

All that I ask is that the '''outgoing''' mail filter feature remain.  Although it exists in some other clients, the automatic feature is something I have yet to find.  This feature helps me to organize my outgoing messages very easily once the filters have been created.  Call me anal, but this is the only reason I have not jumped ship.


== Been using Eudora since I was fifteen ==

I might have been even younger come to think of it. I thought I was power user, then I read this and realised I'm far from. Nothing has ever compared, I was terrified for a while that I might have to switch, especially when I found no other app that has the features I use every day. Glad to see it'll stay alive. Here's what matters to me:

* I love that UI uses aliased text, please keep this as at least an option.

* Maintain the link to OSX's Address Book.

* The ability to link a personality to a template. This is key for me because there are certain personalities where I always to want BCC the same people for every email I send with that personality.

* Keep the colour labels, useful for sorting incoming mail.

* Like others, I love the Eudora folder. I have copied it from one computer to another so many times I can't keep count anymore.

* For the anal retentive person in all of us, please maintain the 'Esoteric Settings'. Customization is spice of life. 

And here are a handful of pet-peeves I would love to have addressed:

* This is the BIGGY. The incoming mail filter detects which personality the email is being sent to by which account it is downloaded from and NOT from the personality described in the 'To:' or other headers. I remember reading on the message board the rationale for this (only guarantee on who it was sent to) and it does make sense, but it leaves users like me in a lurch who have one main account and a slew of alias accounts that forward to the main account. I like having it set up like this so if I'm not at home or at my office, I can log into my web-based email client and see all my emails, as opposed to logging into each account individually. It's funny because my web-based client does this just fine. Perhaps it could be an option in the Settings, either account-based or header-based. I have long dreamed of the day when I can click reply on an email that as been sent to an alternate personality and it is automatically assigned as being 'From:' the corresponding personality. Please.

* Ever since I upgraded to the OSX version, there has been this strange lag between seeing the email downloaded in the task progress window (keep that too, love it) and it actually displaying in my inbox. Sometimes, it is immediate, other times it waits 10-20 seconds. I've even lost emails because I didn't notice it was happening and I've quit the app. Bizarre.

* A volume control for the alert that is independent from the OS volume level. Some days I like listen to my music loud, sometimes quiet. On the days when I have it loud and I take a break an email will be delivered and the alert will blow my speakers out completely. It scares the shit out of my cats!!

I'm not sure how to add these to the voting list, so if some one could or at least email me how, it would be most appreciated.

Thanks! Glad to see Eudora will perserve!

== Yet another collection of feature requests ==

I wholeheartedly support the comments of others, for features (from Eudora) to be retained by Penelope. I'm not sure if anyone has 'summmarised' a list of these, but I'd like to list the ones I've seen that I'd want to keep. In no particular order: 

1. Ability to change/select the "Relay" personality.

2. Ability to change the sending personality.

3. The "BLAH" button.

4. The ability to more fully integrate, with the use of PGP. Perhaps, even the "PGP Desktop" program. (I'm not sure how,  so I'll leave that to the developers.)

5. The fast searching capability.

6. Open mailboxes in their own window.

7. Format of setting up (and the scope/capabilities of) filters.

8. Format of the Address book.

9. Keep the look of the Eudora icons (or at least - the ability to select which icons are preferred).

10. Format of selecting and setting up stationery & signatures.

11. Ability to send images/documents etc. as either an attachement or embedded.

12. Keep the Junk Mail system (and maybe improve the "learning" capability of it).

13. Ability to open a message with Microsoft's viewer (if preferred).

14. Ability to time stamp messages.

15. Ability to easily import all settings (i.e. personalities, mailboxes, filters, etc) into Penelope, from their currently used version of Eudora.

16. Ability to individually set the POP & SMTP ports for each mail account.

17. NEW FEATURE - Have a user set option, to allow automatic updating of the Penelope version being used, with the option to either automatically be updated, or just be notified.

If the new "Penelope" could look (as well as work) as closely as possible to the way the latest Eudora (v7.1.0.9) does, I'd be very happy. The above are what I would hope would be the minimum included features in the new Penelope.

--[[User:Airwolf85|Airwolf85]] 13:51, 24 December 2006 (PST)

== Critical bugfix/add on; suggestions for this page & Penelope UG ==
* When Eudora (and soon Penelope) "double downloads" email kept on server, there should be a way to purge second copies of each email that was replicated. Too cumbersome to do manually (I've tried) - nor does eudora.com explain how to do so.

* This page should be reorgnized so that all "add" "fix" and "removes are clustered, thus helping development team to read them in one place, IMHO.

* If dev team wants Penelope UG feedback, would be great to have way to subscribe (via email) to find out when a version is available for beta testing. I'd sign up in a flash! (Actually, came here today to do so. Oh well.)

* If dev team doesn't care about future of Eudora brand name (per notes above), then  why not just build Eudora options directly into Thunderbird framework, so the  two are integrated in long term. It seems more likely 1 *excellent*, integrated email client would be developed and serviced by open source community than would 2 very good ones (again in IMHO).

--[[User:Dann|Dann]] 07:41, 26 December 2006 (PST)

== Simplify the search for most recently used filter ==

As it stands, the process of searching for the most recent filter(s) used one is fairly tedious.  How about simplifying the process? That would be an enormous help in debugging large filter sets. 

Some design options (take your pick): 
# Extend the find dialog when in the filter window to find the most recently used filter; <Find Again> would find the next most recent; closing and reopening the find dialog would start over.
# Extend the find dialog to search for filters after a specified date and time.

Other options, anyone?

== High filter priorities ==

I'll add my vote in support of:

*including all Eudora filter features;
*putting filters into an outline structure so groups of filters can be collapsed.

== Extensions for Thunderbird users of Eudora should know ==

Hello, I have been a long time user of Eudora 4.3.2 (Windows). I added the free X1 as a search engine (www.x1.com, included in later versions of Eudora as "fast search") and Spambayes as a superior spam filter. Both work with Thunderbird, too. I switched over to Thunderbird (1.5.0.9 now) in recent weeks (importing about 350,000 old emails was easy, address book import failed) and want to list extensions which can give you an "Eudora feeling" using Thunderbird, today. The list of extensions below was automatically generated by "MR Tech Local Install" which I would install first, because it gives you a good grip on all these extensions:

activated extensions: [28]
* addressContext 0.8: http://addresscontext.mozdev.org/
* Allow HTML temporary 0.5.6: http://allowhtmltemp.thunderbird-mail.de/index-en.php
* Attachment Sizes 0.0.5: http://www.supportware.net/mozilla/
* Clippings 2.5: http://clippings.mozdev.org/
* Copy Plain Text 0.3.3: http://mozmonkey.com/
* Display Mail User Agent Extension 1.3: http://www.cweiske.de/misc_extensions.htm#dispMUA
* Edit As New 0.2: http://www.google.com/search?q=Thunderbird%20Edit%20As%20New
* header scroll extension 0.3.1: http://www.cweiske.de/misc_extensions.htm#headerScroll
* Identity Select 1.0: http://www.google.com/search?q=Thunderbird%20Identity%20Select
* MagicSLR 1.2: http://magicslr.thunderbird-mail.de/index-en.php
* Mail Redirect 0.7.4: http://mailredirect.mozdev.org
* Maximize Message Pane 0.8.20: http://www.geocities.jp/wknxc134/moz_ext/
* MessageID-Finder 2.0.0: http://messageidfinder.mozdev.org/
* MinimizeToTray 0.0.1.2006102615+: http://minimizetotray.mozdev.org/
* Mnenhy 0.7.4.666: http://mnenhy.mozdev.org/
* MR Tech Local Install 5.3.2.3: http://www.mrtech.com/extensions/local_install/
* NoBlankQuote 0.3.3: http://ryzh.kiev.ua/nbq/
* Open Long Url 0.2.3: http://mozmonkey.com/
* PrintingTools 0.1.7: http://www.google.com/search?q=Thunderbird%20PrintingTools
* QuickFolders 0.3: http://www.curious.be/
* Quote Colors 0.2.7: http://quotecolors.mozdev.org/
* Search for Sender 0.1.1: http://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/3851/
* Signature Switch 1.4: http://mozext.achimonline.de
* Table2Clipboard 0.0.2.1: http://dafizilla.sourceforge.net/table2clip
* Talkback 1.5.0.9: http://talkback.mozilla.org/
* TB Header Tools Extension 0.6.6: http://www.supportware.net/mozilla/
* ToCyrillic 0.5.10: http://www.benya.com/cyrillic/tocyrillic/
* Toggle Word Wrap 1.0: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/2351/

inactivated extensions: [1]
* Thunderbird Message Filter Import/Export 1.0: http://blogs.sun.com/wind

Michael Logies, germany

== One wish for the list - Handling IMAP folders (Sent in particular) better ==

Hi,

In Mac Eudora 6.x - unlike the Eudora Out box - the IMAP mail "Sent" folder lists the sender under the Who column rather than the recipient. I know I sent it, and would prefer to know to whom the message was sent.  Best of luck with the project.

== Old-time user: General thoughts ==

I've been using Eudora from somewhere around version 2 (late 80's early 90's?)

Definitely make it more Eudora than Thunderbird. Again, the reason I'm a Eudora user is because of it's free(er) interface. Thunderbird loses me on the three panel approach.

One of the advantages of the current Eudora .mbx/.toc format is *recoverability*. The other is portability. There's nothing like being able to open a file in a text editor to save that one bit of information that you absolutely needed to have.

My top feature requests:

1) PLAIN TEXT editing (think BBEdit or EditPad). Rich text should be an option (only). Right now, the editor is a bit of a pain where a double dash anywhere in the page will insert an HTML hr. Some of us still prefer plain old text. One of the reasons I've always preferred Eudora is because it was plain text.

2) The ability to move attachments in a folder based on the message's final resting place (post-filtering). I might have /attachments as the root attachment folder, but also have /attachments/joe or /jane or /business or even /spam. Another approach is to simply mirror the user's mailbox hierarchy.

3) Simplification of installing multi-language dictionaries. I send and receive in three languages. I'd like to be able to more easily install and update the spell-checking dictionaries, and would like to be able to specify which dictionary to use

4) I frequently use my Eudora as a scratch pad and spell checker (New msg, save, no sender). I've often thought it would be very cool to have a universal hierarchical list manager for conversation threads, or notes or to-do that one could check off. This is very secondary however. Avoid bloat, keep features simple, elegant and granular.

Thanks to Qualcomm for not killing Eudora off, and thank you to those of you willing to keep her alive

Zeph
----------------------------
As another old-time user, Version 1.0 when it was handed out for free with Mosaic by an ISP here in Montreal that no longer exists, I agree with the above. Within the last upgrade or 2, a feature was broken that has never been fixed. When you wish to attach a file, the dialogue window is no longer re-sizable. I submitted a Bug Report to Qualcomm but it has never been addressed. It makes finding files so darn much harder. I hope this is addressed. - Peter

== Multiple Windows a **MUST** ==

I knew I liked the multiple windows of the Mac version of Eudora but couldn't describe why until just the other day. The multiple windows certainly can create a mess on one's desktop. But, if I want to create a mess, let me create a mess! :)

As I was working on e-mail the other night, it dawned on me that the ability to have multiple e-mails open at once allows me to (1) compare what different people have said about a topic without having to change back and forth or to switch tabs (like a tabbed browser) and (2) to drag blocks of text between various windows -- to easily pull text from various e-mails into one I'm working on without using copy-and-paste.

Please keep the multiple windows in Penelope.

Bob

== Automation on Windows ==

We use Eudora a lot via the COM Automation facility. This feature would be a must-have if we were ever to migrate from Eudora 7.1 to Penelope. Thanks

Tim.

== Merge with Correo? ==

How does this effort fit with [http://correo-mail.org/ Correo]? Correo is trying to do for thunderbird what Camino does for Firefox: put a nice native Cocoa UI on top of the same engine. Seems that Penelope could benefit from the same approach. Or is Penelope intended to be cross-platform?

Simon F.

:  I have to say, that might help speed things up. Not that I'm getting despondent or anything, but we're not quite at version 0.1, and the status has not been updated since November 2006. At some point I'm going to have to reconsider my options (again) and Correo is looking good - as is Mulberry.

== My wish list: versions 0.1, 0.5, etc ==

Can we at least get a status update of what's been done in the last four months? 

That said, Correo is nice but is clearly  in its infancy - there's very little function to date. I would really like to see the Eudora look and feel show up with modern underpinnings, but at some point I'm going to be giving up and moving to Mulberry or whatever else is out there, because Penelope is increasingly looking like abandonware. Some form of status update would be helpful for the many people who are waiting... some of whom use Intel-based Macs.

== Yet Another Feature Request ==

1) Forward as attachment.

Yes, I report my spam to Spamcop! Unfortunatly Eudora does not allow me to 'forward as attachment' the entier spambox as Outlook Express does. The only thing I do with OE is to report spam! Sounds like having suicidal tendencies, doesn't it?

2) Flexible SMTP server configuration.

The SMTP server depends on what IP one uses. When working on different networks, different SMTP servers require different setups. In order to prevent 'relaying not allowed' errors, Penelope should keep the SMTP server settings with the personality AND depending on the internet connection used.

3) Keep as much of Eudora as possible.

4)This is a UI request. Please allow Single key navigation
in Message summary window. In Thunderbird, I use the keyconfig
editor to map keys J, K, etc. to go up and down the message summaries.
This is so convenient. Please implement this "single key" mappings in
Eudora. This implies, of course, the useer should be able to disable "TypeToselectSubject" option.

== Eudora / Penelope Wish List ==

1) Multiple Attachment Folders

I just HAD to ask if somewhere along the line us lowly Windows users of Eudora could ever hope to gain parity with Mac users of Eudora in one important aspect .....  having multiple e-mail attachment folders?

I'm a consultant and I use filters extensively to sort my mail into separate mailboxes upon sending and receiving. However all incoming attachments get dumped into Eudora/Win's one communal e-mail attachment folder. I've been requesting for years that the actions of filters for the Windows version be updated to act like those of the Mac version - where a user creating a filter for mail from say "Joe Smith" goes into a mailbox name "Joe" and can also specify that all attachments from Joe are also transferred to a folder name "Joe" (or say XYZ Project if Joe is a member of the XYZ project he and I might  be working on at the time).

With the hundreds of attachments I receive each week, manually moving  attachments is a painful and time-consuming experience. I'd have made the move to a Mac and Eudora on a Mac long ago but for the fact that many of the other specialized applications I use in my business are not available on a Mac (guess I could buy a new MacBook and use Parallels for those apps and Eudora/Mac).

If multiple attachment folders are implemented under Windows, then there had best be an option to also do a manual filter of the attachments to the new folders.




2) Seamless Filter Migration

I have about 200 filters in Eudora. I'd like any filter capability in Penelope to be able to import Eudora filters, and also post exceptions to a log file if the import/translation was not successful. I live and die by regular expression filters, so that is a definite 'must have'.

Also, allow for a comment field with each filter so we can do some documentation as we create filters. I don't build wacky filters that often, but if I have not looked at one for a while, I forget what I was actually trying to filter for.




3) File Structure
Keep it the way it is in Eudora - .mbx & .toc   it's more reliable, more recoverable than anything 'Outlook-like'.

Also keep it so the program and .mbx files can be located in separate disks/directories. I'm thinking about the following scenarios -  program on a local drive with .mbx etc.. on a networked raid array, and .mbx etc on an encrypted partition or virtual drive



4) S/Mime & PGP
S/MIME for sure. PGP integration is really PGP Corp's thing to do, but would be a no-brainer for them to do if Penelope was widely used. So implement all my suggestions and it will be widely used :-)



5) Filter List Improvement / Debugging
   a) Each filter that users create automatically gets assigned a 'filter number'. That number is simply the index number of the current position of a filter in the list of filters...sort of like a row number in Excel...if you move the filter up/down in the list, its index number changes. The filter index number should be visible in the list of filters to the left of the filter itself.

   b) When you turn Filter Reporting on, a new left-most column is added in the report showing the index number of each filter used for each message filtered, thus showing you visually *exactly* which filter was actioned to move a specific message to a new location or do whatever else you asked that filter to do.

   c) The index number context is only current so long as the list of filters is not modified during the time Eudora is opened unless you want to build the linkages in the Filters Reporting window to dynamically update if a user changes (adds/deletes/moves) the list of filters, ie. build a hash table of filters and track their position so that if filters are added/deleted/moved during a Eudora session, the Filters List display can be dynamically updated to keep the correct filter index number associated with the correct message.

   By having the match of the specific filter to the action, it becomes easier to debug the actions of filters when they are doing what you say but not what you want.



6) Windows REGISTRY FREE
Don't do anything that requires any entries into that piece of cr*p known as Windows Registry. Any program that has registry entries is a nightmare to recover in the event of a system crash and failure of any backup media.

==Regular Expressions==

Penelope should support the use of complex Boolean expressions as well as regular expressions for filters and (saved) searches (aka "smart mailboxes").

== Eudora features that need to be retained in Penelope ==

I have used Eudora for Windows since 1993.  It's taken me awhile, but I finally got around to making this list.

'''Features that I want that Eudora has, but Thunderbird does not:'''
*Filters:
**Filter Browser
**Filter Outgoing messages & manual filter [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359236 359236]
**Filter Action: Play sound (WAV files) [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=378356 378356]
**Filter Action: Skip the rest of the filters [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359254 359254]
**Make Filter: Make a new filter from a message by using a variety of matching conditions
**Create a new mailbox within filters window [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359241 359241]
*Address Book:
**Address Book Browser
**Make address book entry by extracting address(s) from a particular message.
*Signatures: Multiple signatures, Signature Browser, and the ability to be able to easily change which signature to use for a message being written (from a drop-down list) [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359296 359296]
*Stationary (Template) Browser
*E-mails/mailboxes stored as simple text files
*Multiple windows within the program for mailboxes, messages, signatures, templates, filter browser, address book browser, etc. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359422 359422]
*Option to automatically open the mailboxes that have new messages
*Ability to add buttons to the toolbar for every message & program function (examples: start new message to a particular person, add a particular recipient to the open new message, transfer the message to a particular mailbox, plug-ins to modify text, options for the program, etc) [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359274 359274]
*Combined "Who" column, with sent messages in italics, received messages in regular text [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359270 359270]
*Fast indexed search [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359311 359311]
*Keyboard shortcut to move to the next message in the stack while a current message is open.
*Ability to edit the From e-mail address on outgoing e-mail.
*Send message to browser (I use this for some newsletter e-mails that have many links, so I can open those links in the browser easier). [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360966 360966]
*Delete attachments when the associated message is deleted.
*Ability to edit incoming subject line. [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360976 360976]

'''Features that I want that Thunderbird has, but Eudora does not:'''
*Outgoing mail server is separate from incoming mail "accounts"

'''Features that I want that are in neither Eudora nor Thunderbird:'''
*View unadulterated original source of e-mail (for use in reporting spam)
*Date display format fully customizable to what you want, or to Windows short or long formats
*Account settings: Location on hard drive of mailboxes for that account

'''Bug in Eudora 7.0.1.0 for Windows that needs to be fixed:'''
*Program bombs when it tries to open a message that has had an embedded file stripped from it.

--[[User:Bruce@BruceJohnson.ca|Bruce A. Johnson]] 04:58, 22 April 2007 (PDT)

== Tabs and Delete From Server ==

I couldn't imagine a Eudora, or mail app without tabs.  They are very useful even when using the filters.  When I open email, multiple tabs open depending if folders have been modified.

I installed Thunderbird today, one item that will restrict my use is the option to individually "delete from server".

I used web based email accounts while at work and on the road, when I return home, I download the messages to Eudora.  Messages that I won't need on the road I click "Delete from server" and poof, it is now only local.  I also limit file size downloads to 25k, if I want a larger image downloaded I click "download from server". 

These simple features I think may be overlooked, as I have only seen brief mention of them.

I hope I am not the only one that feels this way.

Thank you


Let me second that.  Deleting specific messages from the server is a great way to deal with spam when you leave mail on the server.  It has to be selective because of false positives; this isn't a filter function.  This way, you can POP mail from more than one Eudora client (i.e., my desktop and laptop, and my Windows and Linux mail accounts -- until one client can manage both).  The first one to get spam can remove it from the server, so later POP fetches (or web mail sessions) won't be bothered by it.

Eudora's POP handling is the best out there.  Nobody else does it that well.  It's one reason I stick with Windows rather than Linux most of the time; I do a lot of email and Linux clients aren't as good with POP.  Cross-platform Penelope would thus be really useful.

== Eudora Likes / Penelope Wants ==

As a user of Eudora since it's earliest beginnings, I have often tried other email clients only to return to Eudora. Simply put, my strong attachment to  Eudora in its present form is:
 
1) Look and Feel - UI and Features, Stationary and Signatures, Accounts setup and Options;
 
2) MBox folder structure and
 
3) Filters structure.
 
On the other hand, the reasons for trying other email clients (and what I would like to see in Penelope) are:
 
a) A straight-forward, clean way of archiving selected folders (say move to CD's) and retaining an awareness and linkage to the archives in the main client -- i.e., ability to open an archived folder tree with a dialog box to insert CD, then open as extension to existing folder tree;
 
b) Saving attachments and embedded objects with (or directly linked to) the message they were received with so that any archiving  would keep them tied to the message;
 
c) Additions to the filtering rules so that a filter could be constructed to move all messages of a certain age (dated before a certain date) to a new folder (which would become a folder to be archived).

 Although not an expert, in trying to import/export mail between clients, I have become aware the message store needs to have a clean, recognizable separator between messages and that the message (as well as the separator) should carry a full date-time stamp, provided by the mail client if not present in the original message.

== Wish list from a long-time Eudora user ==

Have been using Eudora since version 2, well over a decade, and I continue to encourage all of my colleagues and students to use Eudora.  My brain is deteriorating with age, but thanks to Eudora, it doesn't matter too much!!  My wish list to the Penelope developers, in order of priority, some (not all) of which have already been mentioned in this forum:

1) Keep *everything* currently in Eudora (I'm using Windows version 7.0.1, as a point of reference).

2) Keep *everything* currently in Eudora.

3) Keep *everything* currently in Eudora.  That's why we're all here - we all like different features - lose any features, and you'll lose some of us.  Eudora is the best, the only reason it's not used by a billion people is marketing (and Bill Gates).

4) Support for foreign language character sets.

5) Others have also complained about handling of attachments.  My suggestion: I move attachment files to my own folders, via Windows Explorer for better organisation.  Is there some way that Eudora can keep track of these moves, so that clicking on the attachment link in the email will still open the file, wherever it may have been moved to?  I suspect one easy way to do this from the programming side, would be if the File Browser window in Eudora was expanded, and so long as moving files happened within the Eudora File Browser, it should be fairly easy to keep track of these moves...  Note that I do NOT move attachments to folders corresponding to my mailboxes or mailbox folders, so such a scenario is too simplistic and inflexible (but would be suitable for some users, so should have a checkbox for this option).  We need flexibility to move the file wherever we want, and Eudora/Penelope should keep track of this move.

6) When emails are deleted, delete corresponding files in the Embedded directory (this is done for Attachments, but not for Embedded files).

7) From the results of Find Messages, would be good if one could drag and drop a message to transfer it to a different mailbox (as can be done from any actual mailbox).

8) Have a checkbox option to delete embedded files and attached files if the associated email is marked as Junk, particularly important because of embedded viruses in many junk attachments (perhaps a little complicated, since if users later declare the mail was not Junk, need to be able to bring it back - so perhaps can setup a 'quarantine' folder for junk-ed attachments).

9) If an email is incorrectly assigned as Junk, I can correct this, and Eudora 'learns' from its mistake. What is needed, is if an email has a Junk score *just* below the cutoff (so was not assigned as Junk), I would like to tell Eudora that this is not junk (i.e. reassign a Junk score of zero), so that it can learn from its almost-mistake.

10) HTML rendering is not the best, but is not as important for professionals (whom I suspect make up the majority of Eudora users). But one odd and somewhat annoying thing, is that even the rendering which is supported in emails I receive, if I Forward that email to someone else, it is usually lost. (I thought this may have been because of how Eudora handles forwards/replies (i.e. does not give the horrible >>> ), but trying to redirect instead of forward also didn't work).

Thanks for all the years with a brilliant program!

Andrew

== EUDORA perfect mail ==

I have been using Win Eudora since 1995... a long time ago.
So, like a lot of Eudora's users i say EUDORA is OK ... Keep *everything* currently in Eudora.

LEAVE AS IS THE PERFECT FILE SYSTEM
(Eudora configuration and .mbx are in my network server drive and I just upgrade the C: program directory without any configuration... I forget the way to configure my mail account... I've in few minuts all my accounts and mails of last years still on line ... when I need all in my notebook I just copy the directories and modify .ini file... in fiew time I've my mails with me in any meeting I'm)
ATTACHMENTS DIRECTORY WORK FINE LIKE ALWAYS AND I DON'T FEEL ANY CHANGE

in our studio mails are in few boxes depending on filters and our giga of mails are ever on touch by order or by search... perfect and easy

TO BE REALLY PERFECT:
enable the way to share the same mbx and personality from different pc on the same network: so we can stop to ask "who is working in eudora now? shutdown please if you don't need" and my studio can go on with this super, virus safe, easy and powerfull mail client.

thanks Qualcomm staff for this great prog
2007 4 30 POL


== Eudora Joys and Wants ==
I don't have much to add to the above in the "Why I use Eudora" discussion, but here's a reiteration of  some of the top reasons that come to mind:
*Handles multiple personalities extremely well
*I have messages going back at least 12 years.  My Eudora folder is 1.1Gb, although 734MB of that is in Attachments.  Searching these archives is extremely fast, display is seamless, and Eudora just doesn't choke on the volume!
*Multiple windows
*Great file structure (easy to read the files w/ a text editor)
*Redirect ability is nice
*Just about everything in the current Mac version is great (EXCEPT Mood Watch)

I understand that development on Penelope is stil in its early stages, but here's my Eudora/Penelope wish list:

*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_%28metadata%29 Tagging]!  I would much prefer to be able to apply multiple tags to an email, rather than have to choose a single folder to file it into.  
*Improved handling of attachments:
**The suggestion of having an attachment folder for each mailbox sounds like a great one.
**Having an option to delete an attachment in the email message display would be handy (to eliminate 'junk' from taking up too much hard disk space)
**Do something with vCard attachments, or at least don't keep sticking a billion copies of them in the attachments folder!
*Make a more subtle Task Progress window that doesn't take up so much room, and displays properly (e.g., without having the "help" button cover up error message text) on the Mac
*Preferences: Make all of the 'hidden' preferences/options editable via a GUI instead of the text-in-a-window option
*More keyboard shortcuts! ("Wrap Selection," "Filters," ?)
*Make a keyboard shortcut to choose (or flip through) which personality to use for current outgoing email
*Make it easier to convert text (e.g., "Wrap Selection" to convert formatted text to plain text)
*Hide or display better the weird headers (esp. the empty lines) in messages sent from Gmail
*Improve text display, presumably by using modern, native OS X display functions.
*Improve HTML rendering, but still keep things simple - do NOT automatically display images, or download anything that is not straight HTML/CSS.  In other words, keep its security tight.
*If I have Eudora set to auto-check emails a regular intervals (say, 15 minutes), and then I do a manual check, it should 'reset' the Next Check time to not happen until a full interval has passed. In other words, if it would auto-check 3 minutes from now and I wind up doing a manual check, it shouldn't check again in 3 minutes, but instead in 15 minutes.
*Add easy integration with PGP and/or Mac GPG
*Spotlight search

Thanks to all who have worked on Eudora in the past, and to those who are working to update it for the future!

== Eudora - Thunderbird ==

Hi, since January I have been posting my Eudora comments here: http://wiki.mozilla.org/Talk:Thunderbird#

I love Eudora and have been using it for more years than I can remember.  I installed Tbird recently and compared it to my beloved Eudora.  Some functionality of Eudora is present there but a key differentiating feature is the modularity.  I have nearly 4,000 mailboxes, so modularity and the ability to incrementally back up my email is essential.  After installing the available extensions for Tbird that enable similarity to Eudora, I provide these requests for enhancement to the program which would make it possible for me to migrate.  I hope you find them helpful in your planning and appreciate your considering them!  Again, these comments were posting in a message on the Tbird wiki, so please don't be confused by references to features Eudora already has that are mentioned there as need. Sue Cifelli
This was my post:
Hi,
I have taken some time to acquaint myself with the new version of Tbird and am writing to request a few enhancements which will incorporate some features in Eudora which are not yet part of Tbird:


'''a modular structure.'''  I incrementally back up my data daily.  As I have nearly 4,000 email boxes, if Eudora's email data was in one solid file, that back up would be significantly larger and take much longer to back up.  In the event a TOC file is corrupted, it is easy to delete it and Eudora regenerates it.  If my Tbird email file became corrupted, that could lead to a disaster of significant proportions.


'''scheduled send.'''  The extension which handled this functionality for earlier versions of Tbird has not been updated and the extensions community reports they haven't heard from its developer in a couple of months.  Ideally, scheduled send should be built into Tbird anyway, as it is in Eudora.  I would request, however, that Tbird store the scheduled messages separately from the draft/unscheduled messages to make it easier to manage them.  It would be great to have these also work with the colorful tabs add on!


'''Tabbed view.'''  As by sure you most likely know, Eudora presents mailboxes with new mail, and opened draft folders and messages at the bottom of the preview window.  This is immeasurably helpful in navigating the new mail.  Eudora also provides tabbed views of the personality's mailbox repository, a file browser, signatures, stationary, and personalities.  This makes it easy to navigate various product features.  I'd love to see this implemented with the colorful tabs add on.
'''
Window view of folders.''' When one right clicks on a mail item and hovers over an existing folder in Eudora, a window pops up with the mailboxes in that folder.  The folder is 7 columns wide.  I use that preview as a guide for knowing when to move some of my key tracking data to the next folder.


'''Local Folders.'''I don't understand the purpose of the "local folders".  If you have a dominant personality, why aren't those local folders simply created for it.  Perhaps this can be done away with or simply defined for each personality going forward.


'''Enhanced Address Book.'''  It would be fabulous to have the ability to track birthday and anniversary (by type - wedding, ordination, professed vows, etc)data, as well as IM name by client MSN, Yahoo, AIM).  Some people I know use all 3 leading clients, and more and more, people are using the jabber/Gmail client.  We need to be able to specify which client to use to communicate with someone on.


'''Concurrent Main Dictionaries.'''  Latin, UK English and American English would be great if they were concurrent.


'''No email days.'''  I had mentioned this in an earlier post and would like to reiterate the need for this feature, and the option to automatically send their missed messages upon their return.


'''Send as New - to New Recipient''' - it would be great to have the addressee areas blank as a send as new option


'''Advanced Filter Management.'''  I am using a program called EuFO to manage my Eudora filters.  I can organize them by folders, and easily arrange the order of those folders within the Eudora filters.  This little program has enabled me to easily identify duplicate and out of date filters, and easily manage the order my filters are processed.  With nearly 300 filters, I'd be beside myself trying to manage them manually.  It would be great if Tbird included a filter management area where filters could be organized by folder in tabs (colored, or course!)


'''Send Personally.'''  As most of my emails go out to large groups of people, I would love the ability to click a button to have Tbird send those messages with a little text inserted at the top such as Dear Joan...etc.  MapiLabs makes such a tool for Outlook, but I haven't seen anything like this for Tbird.


I have installed an extension to enable attachment detachment, but as with the modular approach to the mailboxes, it is far preferable to have this feature integrated in the core program.


'''Change received message priority.'''  In Eudora, on can right click on a message, or click an icon on the tool bar to change the priority of a message.  I have found this very useful in managing messages I want to be sure to keep.  There is currently an extension to do this but the icon and label take up a huge amount of space on the toolbar.


Many thanks in advance!
Sue Cifelli