Talk:Thunderbird:Future of Thunderbird: Difference between revisions

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Eyalroz

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-Hello Mitchel,
+David and I have expressed some of our thoughts here:
-thanks for this initiative, I think I have two good ideas to the development, the thunderbird development team and the organizational structure.
+http://scott-macgregor.org/blog/?p=4
-Maybe Thunderbird has not such a usersbase and development features and money resources to stay in that shape as it is.
+I blogged about this http://www.alexhudson.com/blog/2007/07/26/#thunderbird , primarily because I hack on http://www.bongo-project.org/ and would love to see Thunderbird really take advantage of some of the stuff our server can/could do. Primarily, I think Tbird has to become relevant to business users, even if just small business people, and it seems to me the obvious way to create a product which might generate revenue.
-But I would not through away the baby with the bath tub, as we say here.
-First, making a new organization/foundation is too much work and takes time. So I suggest to give Thunderbird just one year more in the mozilla organization and then make it either a cild company or a sf.net community project.
-After that year, do not miss to ask the developers and coders about their interest, in which environment they want to work.
-Please, let Thunderbird for one year in this organizational structure as it is. And we can develop the following ideas.
-. Thunderbird is a very good mail client. It is in one step mass-ready: But, Outlook is still better, because it has a calendar.
-So just add to Thunderbird a calendar function to get reminders for emails to reciepients with a bithday. So instead of outsourcing Thunderbird, merge Thunderbird, with  Sunbird. Both are birds, you know?
-http://sourceforge.net/projects/portablesbird/
-. And this is the new idea of email: 80 % of email we do to trusted friends. And we do less email, because we are on Instant Messengers.
-So we need like in Google Mail the option for both: sending an email message or - if online - an Instant Message.
-There is a new serverless Instant Messenger out. this is http://retroshare.sf.net
-It is open for client and protocol, for all posix available, at the  moment with QT/FLTK gui.
-The main principle is, that all communication is done ONLY to friends, which were defined before with a symmetric key exchange. This means, communication is safe and encrypted.
-This has the side effect, that no one can message and email me - besides the definded trusted friends.
-Retroshare Messenger is both: an email client and an serverless Instant Messenger.
-So... sending serverless Email is definately a feature, how mail is in future organized. The same for Instant Messaging. The Instant Messenger market is one with very high interest, see Google Talk or the merge of AOL-ICQ and MSN-Yahoo and all the Multimessengers.
-The idea is now: to implement RetroShare serverless Email and serverless Instant Messenger into Thunderbird.
-This should be scheduled for one year of work within the Mozilla Foundation (just a gui integration) and then we release some betas of Thunderbird with Retroshare Instant Messenger and serverless Mail and ideally with Sunbird Calendar. The official Release is then a full integration of RetroShare serverless protocol for serverless Email and Instant Message and the Sunbird.
-. Thunderbird is used not so much, because it is not bundled into the Firefox Installer.
-One Comment said, that the Mozialla Foundation should then use the name Firefox Foundation.
-But instead of your initiative, I would recommend to a) give Thunderbird one year merging with Retroshare and b) going a little bit back to the roots: Mozilla Foundation was Netscape? So Mail and Surf. And if the we get Thunderbird with Firefox bundled to ONE Suite, then we would not have these problems. Really, I am really surprised about the suggestion to outsource Thunderbird, if it was Sunbird, ok, but Thunderbird? Even Netscape said, that the acutal version is only browser. But a few days later they said an email client will be not excluded for the future!!!
-My suggestion is:
-. Integrate Sunbird in Thunderbird
-. Integrate Retroshare in Thunderbird
-. Bundle it to the Firefox Installer.
-Then after one year of development, decide new and see, how the product is used or not.
-And last: If there is a new organization needed for Thunderbird in one year, this is definately the OpenOffice.org community, as they play around with a calendar and as well with an Instant Messenger.
+* So I agree with lots what you posted, I wouldn't suggest to tie it to one server product, but use existing standards if possible. [[User:Eddyn|Eddyn]] 13:01, 29 July 2007 (PDT)
+== Roadmap suggestion: Focus on the backend ==
-*IF* Thunderbird MUST be outsourced now, then make a new joint-venture-company with OpenOffice, for a Product, which has Email (Thunerbird) Serverless Email and IM (Retroshare) and third a calendar (Sunbird) integrated.
+I would like to suggest an outlook (sorry about the pun) which is almost diametrically opposed to what I've been reading people say on talkbacks, forums, etc.
-But it is a mistake to do it isolated outsourced (merged in a joint venture or not), this is why I suggest to have a very HIGH DEVELOPMENT for the next six months, to get the first version of Thunderbird 2.7.9.9 launched this year, with Sunbird and Retroshare implemented in the gui.
+Most people's suggestions seem to be about 2 things: Fix their personally-favorite UI bug :-)  and add new features - calendaring, instant messaging, etc. I believe that as long as you are just two full-time developers, this is not a good idea. I find that the current Thunderbird development community is overstretched as it is. With more resources, feature-set expansion is more reasonable.
-The beta should be this year released.
-Then in 2008 we get first official Version of 2.8.0.0
+The alternative, in my view, is to focus on improving Thunderbird's back end:
+# Disentangle back-end API from the front-end, e.g. folder operations which for some reason require msgwindows and require 'selecting' folders, or the address book, in which AFAICR you have to interact with the address book window to add/remove/manipulate entries
+# Allow for more non-UI work to be done outside of the main thread
+# Add support for more mail storage formats (maildir, databases, maybe even other mail clients' formats),
+# Support situations in which multiple processes (or threads) are working on the same mail folders / mail db / etc. at the same time
+# Rework some older and cruftier parts of the code (like libmime)
+# Allow for real manipulation of messages in code (i.e. have message objects rather than just message header objects)
+# Expand the concept of a message to accommodate future work with instant messaging or forums-via-mail-client and other such modes of communication and interaction
+# Create a more powerful and more versatile filtering framework
+# Improve the documentation and the readability of backend code and of the innumerable cryptic interfaces and methods.
+I think the focus on 'enabling' work - backend improvement work - should allow more people to get involved with Thunderbird development in general, expand the possibilities of what can be done with extensions, and perhaps even lure people who are now only extension developers to get involved with core development. These last few goals are what I wish to stress the most - even if you disagree with some of the foci I listed in the previous paragraph.
+--[[User:Eyalroz|Eyalroz]] 01:53, 4 August 2007 (PDT)
-I think this would be a good vision to email: a serverless email and message communication done with the retroshare protocol in the Thunderbird.
+== A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. ==
+# adding sunbird lightning calendar to Thunderbird installer by default
+# Integrating serverless Instant Messenger retroshare.sf.net to Thunderbird
+# Creating a adress book in Thunderbird, which has: emailadress, retroshare-key fields for each contact (copy out line).
+# creating the online-contact box in the left menue as a contact list for Thunderbird email, users are offline or online and can be messaged or emailed. So there is no need for a buddylist, it is just the contacts adressbook of Thunderbird, which appears in the write Window and under teh folders in the main window left.
+# Make a Thunderbird wizard, which picks up email-pop, retroshare cert_user.pem file OR creates an account for retroshare serverless IM.
-Besided it would have good synergies to have the option to mail to friend over Retroshare (no spam, confidential mail, sending of documents... etc)
+These five steps to a new Thunderbird future combine both:
-and second you can use for Mails to public Mailadresses (with @ in a mailadress) the Thunderbird. Thunderbird would get an Instant Messenger as well.
+* online and offline communication
+* Instant Messaging and Email
+* serverless (new jabber-retroshare) and serverbased protocols (email)
+* a new general interface to internet communication on the desktop.
-Last idea: Retroshare is discussion to add the www.sim-im.org Multimessenger as a Patch to retroshare, or other way round, SIM will integrate Retroshare.... this both added to Thunderbird would be like a Multimessenger we need.
+If no new roadmap is done for Mozilla, let´s do it for openoffice.
-- serbased Mail Message (Thunderbird)
+A team could performed with all the developers of
-- serverless Mail Message (Retroshare)
+Thunderbird, sunbird, and retroshare and maybe openoffice-developers.
-- Serveless Instant Message (Retroshare)
+BTW, there was an announcement, that 50 chinese developers invest in OOo,
-- Serverbased Multimessenger (SIM-im.org with AOl, MSN YAHO ICQ JABBER)
+so why no getting support here as well.
-- Calender Function like in Outlook (Sunbird).
-This should be the plans for thunderbird in the next months.. a lot of stuff to do, maybe you can discuss it with the small development team and get a few coders as well from firefox.
+== No organizational change for now ==
-Remember: The main goal is to get an Installer ready, which is Bundling Firefox with the Message Tool.
+I suggest to hold off any organizational change (and talks about) for now and focus currently on the results your post might bring. I also suggest to start a discussion on a mailing list for brain storming in order to bring ideas together and see who/where/when can make which commitments. Results from the mailing list should be posted back here including proposals, road map, commitments etc. (See [http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird/browse_thread/thread/8cadffad86e5bfb3/a08fdc3b085d2991#a08fdc3b085d2991 mailing list entry])
+Once a clear road map and direction is decided, it will be much easier to choose how to proceed and what would be best for the project.
-Reading Information is only the half of the medaillon, the other half is to discuss them onlin ewith friends.
+(I feel that the wiki isn't the right place for discussions and might discourage people from joining forces. The wiki is an excellent place to nail things down once something serious can be posted)
-Incoming Information (Reading web, Firefox) and outgoing information (Email, Thunderbird) are 2 ways of communications, which are essential for human beings.
+[[User:Eddyn|Eddyn]] 16:17, 27 July 2007 (PDT)
-So please do not make mistakes! Give Thunderbird a Push with a serverless Instant Messenger.
+==Better Backups==
-Thanks!
+I think Thunderbird needs a better backup something that is easier then the current 3rd party programs out there to back it up.
->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
+                                                        --CO
+I think that looking at what makes Microsoft Outlook a popular mailing system might give some clues as to what users consider the basics for their mailing systems.
+I am currently an Outlook user, I installed Thunderbird a month ago but got the impression I was going back to Outlook express.
+Really the functionalities, I think, that make the success of Outlook are :
+      - Classified Information (Mails, Calendar and reminders, Contacts)
+      - Search options (Search for contacts, and through emails)
-David and I have expressed some of our thoughts here:
+I think if by opening Thunderbird, I had a clear impression that the software was going to deliver those, I would have swapped over.
+Some of the features I wish I could find a mailing application had :
+      - Integrated Mail server to email reminders (for a meeting to multiple users for example)
+      - Webversion of the standard client. Similar to Microsoft Outlook Web access but integrated into a client version.
-http://scott-macgregor.org/blog/?p=4
+Hope this helps...
-I blogged about this http://www.alexhudson.com/blog/2007/07/26/#thunderbird , primarily because I hack on http://www.bongo-project.org/ and would love to see Thunderbird really take advantage of some of the stuff our server can/could do. Primarily, I think Tbird has to become relevant to business users, even if just small business people, and it seems to me the obvious way to create a product which might generate revenue.
+Jeremie