Talk:SeaMonkey:Name And Version: Difference between revisions

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(Removing discussion as it is now irrelevant)
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== Product Name ==


There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf).    Thoughts?
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'''The project council (a.k.a. "suite drivers") has decided on a project name now. We're submitting that name as a US trademark through Mozilla Foundation, and we have to wait for clearance from their lawyers before announcing it publicly. Please stay tuned!'''<br>
See [http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=1333010#1333010 mozillaZine forums] for a longer story about that. --[[User:KaiRo|KaiRo]] 16:51, 23 Mar 2005 (PST)
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It's been a month, and my tuner is starting to drift with no signal to lock on to.  And people said we didn't need to rush into the naming issue? --[[User:L Squared|L2]] 07:28, 23 Apr 2005 (PDT)
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''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)
: There's a first statement of the project management on all this name discussion out, see [http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=1321975#1321975 mozillaZine forums] -- [[User:KaiRo|KaiRo]] 19:20, 18 Mar 2005 (PST)
=== Proposition to move discussion ===
Why don't we create a new talk page, something like Talk:SeaMonkey:Naming to hold this discussion? -- [[User:Irixman|Irixman]] 10:17, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)
: I don`t think it`s the right time for a naming discussion. IMHO we should first clear the Situation, build the Team and the "Team-Structure" and than we could discuss about a Name :-) -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 12:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)
:: I'd have to agree with Tomcat. Besides which, I really have no qualm with the ''SeaMonkey'' moniker.
:: However, I do agree that this place is getting a little cluttered. This Wiki interface doesn't appear to be very well structured for holding threaded discussions. As such, per Irixman and Johann's suggestions, all discussion would likely benefit greatly by remaining in the [http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=3 Seamonkey Forums] over on '''MozillaZine'''. - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]
If you feel we don't/can't deal with the name isue now, what name do you propose we use in all the help files?  This will need to be done before the release.  [[User:L Sqiared|L2]]
=== Branding Restrictions ===
Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]
: We '''probably won't use the same naming conventions''', as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.
:
: [...]
:
: There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., '''can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark''' [...]
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html Transition Plan]
This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. -- [[User:irixman|irixman]]
: To add to the Name discussion, Something like *zilla can't be used. The zilla thing is trademarked by someone else. He gaved Mozilla the ok to use the name but als mentioned, that they won't no new *zilla products. Also please do not spam this wiki discussion and please think about something else as the name yet. We firstly need a core team and spokesperson. We will let you informed, how you can help the X Suite product, besides of the normal bugzilla help, testing nightlies and so on.
: And for information please don't change the comment order, use : to move your text a bit to left if you comment a comment (or use more : do move more left). And sign every comment with -- <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> (2 minus and 4 tildes) on the end. So all will be more readable. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)
===Ana===
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]
===The Teleport Suite===
I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation...
I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:
http://www.auriance.com/docs/teleport.png
: There are aleady an application named "Teleport" Link: http://www.tenmax.com/teleport/pro/home.htm This is a web downloader like wget, but for windows and with GUI. The project seems to be half-dead (i use the version 1.29 already 6 years). [[User:Yozhhh|Yozhhh]]
===Options===
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions.  What you call something affects how you think about it.
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS)  Internet Master (IM)
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]
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Some thoughts that I saw (on mozillazine??) are to relate this to the OO.o project.  They're making the office application suite, and seamonkey has always been known as the internet suite.  I believe it's a necessity to demonstrate the 'power' of the application, as the suite of tools and the underlying framework that's extensible.  Maybe an Acronym?
OIT  (Open Internet Toolbox)
GIT  (Gecko Internet Toolbox/Toolkit)
How about a play on the iPod:  iNet!  (silly, but it may spur someone else on to something better)
Some other comments say that the suite is for the Uber-Geeks...maybe we should capitalize on that?  Let Fx go for the noob's  ;)  [[User:larrybpsu|larrybpsu]]
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Let's not call it Gecko Internet Toolkit.. We don't want to be marketing GIT. -- [[User:Mithent|Mithent]]
===Be careful===
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another.
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese.
Which of course, would not be auspicious.
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]
===Some names===
WebMoz
OpenMoz
Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)
Openzilla
--[[User:Vd|Vd]] 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)
or
Suitemoz
-- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)
SeaWolf
-- [[User:HJ|HJ]] Sunday, March 13, 2005 at 9:20:48 AM PST
Seamona or seaMona : a ''mona'' is a ''she-monkey'' in spanish, but it also means ''cute''
-- [[User:RobinHood|RobinHood]] 16:42, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)
MozSuite or MoZuite or Mozuite or MoSuite (update: blah ... should have read the whole page and the forum on MozillaZine first, but my suggestions still stand)
-- [[User:Amused|Amused]] 18:07, 26 Mar 2005 (PST)
===WebZilla===
Just my small idea similar to one above... "WebZilla"
Not much different...short and suite...
-- [[User:Rickkins|Rickkins]]
===Rules for names - Before we get stuck into a trap...===
Remember the hassle about the name "Firebird"?
We should avoid that this happens again. Therefore we should make some background-rules before:
# The name shouldn't be in use by another software
# The name shouldn't sound as another known name or trademark (therefor also no "Mozi**"-names)
# If a name gets more as 1000 hits on google, forget it
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:39, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)
I disagree with the point 2, on the [http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html Mozilla Trademark Policy] they encourage the name of ''community editions'' to localized protects, and also allows the use of the Moz prefix to related projects. We could blend this and use the name:
MozCommunity Suite
--[[User:Dahem0n|Dahem0n]] 10:27, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)
Yes, it's my understanding that Moz- names are acceptible. Names with -zilla will likely be challenged by the owners of the Godzilla trademark and our legal budget at the moment seems to be $0; I'd say that anything with -zilla is out. It's also my understanding that we can't use Gecko in the name either.
-- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 07:09, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)
===Another idea on gettng names===
On some other OS-projects I am working on, I found out, that all good names in common language are used already. Also all names of historic character (like from the greeks and so on).
I found 2 good sources for names:
# http://www.pantheon.org/ - Ther you can dig in the names in the mythology of many cultures. There are a lot of possibilities. E.g. in the australian mythology... You only habe to search...
# Sindarin - You know "Lord of the Rings"? The elbian language that was defined by Tolkien is a source also for good-sounding names. In german we got a web-portal http://www.sindarin.de - Using Sindarin could help to use the same name like before, but in an not obviously language :)
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:45, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)
===engine suite===
I think it vill be good and uzer friendly name
"Use engine suite, advance your iPerformance"
===mSuite===
Why not use something simple like "mSuite" or similar ?
===voting===
Perhaps we could collect some names here and I could temporarly host a voting system as soon as we haven enough names. Then everyone could vote for the name he likes best.
== Seamonkey Project - Proposed Alternative Name Archive ==
In an effort to unify the tangled name gathering process, a thread has been opened for proposing suggestions in a cohesive, organized fashion, over on Mozillazine.
[http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=234325&highlight= Seamonkey Project - Proposed Alternative Name Archive]
The list will eventually be moved here to its own page, for perusal and consideration by those who will be steering the project.
Please come and contribute your ideas.
Thank you.
:: - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]
== Product Version ==
MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8.  They want to make sure that the users see no connection between Mozilla and the Seamonkey.  Versioning Seamonkey to 1.8 may confuse users into thinking that it's the next version of Mozilla, and thus supported by MoFo.
Now we are an INDEPENDENT project - MoFo can't say us nothink!
When Phoenix was renamed to Firebird, and Firebird to Firefox the versioning system wasn't changed, so it were an compleatly bad idea that we should begin from null (version 1.0). We should make a version 1.8 or 2.0, but i think 2.0 should be a version based on the tollkit and etc. ;)
--[[User:Adrianer|Adrianer]]
:But remember, MoFo is providing us with lots of resources, including Bugzilla, Tinderbox, and lots of internals. Personally, I don't think we should try to anger them! See my post about their naming rules. Our best bet is probably a new, unique name at a version 1.0 release --[[User:irixman|irixman]]
I think that there are 2 possibilities: 1. 2.0 (Kind of a Next Generation), because there already has been a 1.0+ Suite or 2.) v1.0 because of a "new" Suite from a new Team. -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:34, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)
While Seamonkey will be a independent project, it will still rely on the tools and services provided by MoFo (Tinderbox, Bonsai, Bugzilla, server space, etc).  One can assume that if Seamonkey chose v1.8 for the release version, MoFo would feel less eager to provide us with those tools and services.
"MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8."
:Can you cite evidence for this? In my opinion, 1.8 is the most obvious and appropriate version number - it is after all the same program. I think the facts that the name isn't "Mozilla" and that it's not mentioned on Mozilla 1.x's product page will prevent any confusion. --[[User:Greg K Nicholson|Greg K Nicholson]] 13:57, 13 Mar 2005 (PST)
::This has been discussed on the seamonkey newsgroup [http://groups-beta.google.com/group/netscape.public.mozilla.seamonkey/browse_thread/thread/7c9c274484ad138b/0f0852fd6606444c?q=mozilla+version+mozsuite+1.8#0f0852fd6606444c] -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 05:24, 14 Mar 2005 (PST)
===Suggestions===
* 2.0 -- but i think it is better for a version based on toolkit and with much more changes as this version
* 1.8.0, 1.8.sea, 10.1.8 etc -- Too close to 1.8 for MoFo?
* 1.0 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey is a baby, which it isn't.  However, we can do version step ups at a higher rate, and eventually match Gecko's version when it hits 2.0.
* 0.9 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey isn't even stable
* Friendly Name -- Like MacOS/Microsoft does (Tiger, Longhorn, XP, NT, etc).  ie. "Seamonkey Internet Suite: Rebellion".  Then, in later releases, we could start matching gecko versions again (once it's clear that Seamonkey isn't supported by MoFo.  ie "Seamonkey 1.10" w/Gecko 1.10, "Seamonkey 1.11" w/Gecko 1.11, "Seamonkey 2.0" w/Gecko 2.0.
This issue points to why we need to deal with the label up front as well.  Apparently MoFo won't go along with any 1.8 release.  If we are to get the next version out soon, we need to agree on what to call it.  I suspect that version 1.0 will probably be our best option, and agree with 2.0 being the toolkit version.  [[User:L Squared|L2]]
L2, I agree. I think we need a new name and a 1.0 release. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]
I agree a 1.0 release is the best option. The upgrade version can get a 0.8 advance towards our version 2.0, making it 1.8. [[user:dahem0n|dahem0n]]
I prefer 2.0: there are so many releases with 1.0, also think about situation when users talks about Suite 1.4 and Seamonkey 1.4 - which of them is Mozilla Suite? So better is skip 1.8 and 1.9 and start with 2.0. We're not on beggin. [[user:Adamhauner|Adam Hauner]]
1.9.0 would be a great compromise between 1.0, the prohibited 1.8, and 2.0.  By going with 1.9.0, I believe 2.0 could still be the toolkit version and we still have room to increment between 1.9.0 and 2.0. -- [[User:Bret|Bret]]
:Sounds like a stable release, not a completely new or untested product, doesn't use the disallowed 1.8 and leaves 2.0 for a toolkit version. I agree this is the best compromise. --[[User:irongut|irongut]]
I suggest to use 0.2. This is supposed to be the toolkit based suite, right? And we're miles away from that. Once that is done (say, foo is based on gecko 2.0), this project may have 1.0 status. I do expect some rough edges on the way to toolkit, so indicating that this is a less stable version might be good. --[[User:AxelHecht|Axel Hecht]]
Axel, fact, that Suite is based on toolkit, is not too important for users. For them is actual Suite normal mature product.
[[user:Adamhauner|Adam Hauner]]
==A decision has been made==
[http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=1333010#1333010 KaiRo has spoken]: the new name has been decided and will be announced when the lawyers say so. The first release will be version 1.0. The project's group of leaders (formerly known as ''Seamonkey drivers'') will be known as the ''"Project" council''. -- [[User:Greg K Nicholson|Greg K Nicholson]] (the messenger)

Revision as of 13:06, 6 June 2005

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