Talk:Firefox/4.0 Windows Theme Mockups

This theme looks beautiful. I have started using Chrome more frequently just for its very clean and light look. I am going to switch to full time use of Firefox as soon as 4 is released. I am hoping to see more screenshots, so that I/we can provide more specific feedback. Do not pay attention to the critics that call this a duplication of Chrome look. This is simple an evolution of a very nice user interface design originally promoted by Google. --Ebegoli 22:12, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Tabs-on-top: yes or no

Personally i like tabs on top. Right, tabs on top might confuse some users ("Breaks Consistency/Familiarity - Moving things confuses existing users."). I've never developed a Firefox extension or theme (so some of my assumptions might be wrong or already implemented):

1. Implement a mechanism so that every theme supports tabs-on-top and tabs-on-bottom modes (a new requirement for version 4.0 themes to support both modes). Add an option in the preferences pane (default to tabs-on-bottom).

and/or

2. Add an API to write reliable tabs-on-top themes. I know, there's an extension that places tabs on top. But the extension never worked reliably (at least for me): Moving the firefox window does not work when the title-bar is hidden, graphically glitches when used in combination with some themes... I don't know why the tabs-on-top-extension does not work correctly for me. Maybe there's no API to hide the window-title-bar and the extension is using a hack?

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Tabs on top look beautiful, and it's the craze right now. After Chrome, even Safari has it. It will certainly look appealing to regular Firefox users. But being the craze is the problem. I suggest the design in Firefox 4.0 must be original. Copying old ideas is not anything different. We also want our Foxy to be the best and stand out from the crowd.

--- Tabbed browsing in Chromium is easier to pick up for novice users because of how the URL appears as belonging to each tab. For me it is much more common to see people spawning multiple single tabbed windows with both ie7+ and firefox because of this than in Chromium. This current layout of the user chrome was stablished by Opera waaaaaaay back when there where limited computing resources and ui-controls to choose from, and it should be ditched already. Also, notice that the bookmarks button from A version is missing in B version. --Ponzonik 23:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

How about address-bar-on-top? That way you'll give users more screen realestate without breaking consistency / familiarity. Further more, address bar needs less horizontal space and is less fragmented than tabs bar, so it might even look better than current proposal. --Karl3 05:36, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

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>> That certainly sounds like an option. I say, making the effort to have both as an option might be the way to go, that way you don't risk alienating users who are used to the 'old way' while catering to new users and users who prefer the 'chrome' way. On a personal note; i like the chrome approach, i feel it makes the ui seem more "whole" and natural. --Dipso 06:22, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Progress on tabs instead?

As i stated in the thread about 3.7 and 4.0, why not have the proposed progress indicator on the tabs instead? this makes a lot more sense if you open a new background tab, especially for a new user.

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That's a great idea. As I mentioned in the previous section, the progress bar should be on tabs. But then the tab is not as long as the progress bar. i like the idea of the thin, colour changing progress bar mentioned in this article, but I suppose we must put the progress bar in the address bar, like in the older Safaris. The colour changing idea mustn't be waived though.

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The original post i made:

I noticed the addition of a progressbar under the awesomebar in the 4.0 mockup. Wouldn't it be much better to have progress show on the tabs them selves, that way if i open a lot of tabs at once i can instantly see what tabs are loading and how far along they are. I use tabmixplus for this currently and find it to be a really useful feature.

The progressbar could be a thin one like suggested with the current mockup, or it could be the tab filling with color like the new taskbar in win7 (this way it keeps with the system scheme.)

Just a thought.

--Dipso 23:43, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

There's already a progress indicator and a stronger one would make for a really busy screen. --Ponzonik 23:51, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Dipso. Maybe someone can suggest a better idea for how to do it with minimal clutter, but the idea is worth thinking about.

--NoamNelke 00:12, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I use an extension called Fission that puts a safari style progress bar in the location / awesome bar itself. It shades the whole bar blue. It's very effective, reduces clutter and is a lot more obvious than the suggested progress indicator.

--RoryOK 10:12, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

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You can use tabmix plus to get progress bars on the tabs right now. Thats what i do, and i don't find it to busy, nor do i find the bar to small. In fact its realy helpful, especially if im on a slow connection or browsing slow sites. This way i can see in the corner of my eye when tabs are done loading, all the while reading the active tab.

Menus

I like the new designs, especially the Chrome-like one (Tabs-on-top), it seems more thought-through (perhaps because Google has).

The part that I liked better about the first (tabs-on-bottom) design is the visual differentiation between controls that relate to the currently visible page (Page menu attached to the top-left corner of it) and controls that relate to the browser (Tools menu right under the close button).

One possible usability issue is that people often don't know in which of the two menus an item is (often happens to me when using Chrome/IE). For that reason (among others) I think it's vital to keep the two menus next to each other (they are on opposite sides of the window in the first design).

Aesthetically, I don't like the way the page menu is attached to the page.

Here's an idea: Look at the second design (tabs-on-top). What if you removed the "tab background" from behind the Tools menu as if the corner of the tab was missing and the menu took up that space. Basically the button would stay where it is now, but it would no longer be on the tab, but on the window behind it.

Here is a Photoshopped image I made to illustrate the idea:

My idea creates some clutter, so I'm sure someone will come up with a cleaner solution, but I uploaded it anyway to give some food for thought.

--NoamNelke 00:12, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

The first problem with master menu buttons like "Page" and "Tools" is that it is not clear what functions belong in which master menu.

If the app can tolerate things like tabs in the top area, why not keep version A and put traditional menu items up next to the app icon and the title? That would conserve vertical space, use horizontal space that is currently blank, and maintain traditional dropdown menus.

--ehume 2053, 2009-07-27 (EDT)

Combo buttons - pros and cons

Positive effect could be easily seen - it saves some space for the button. But negative effects are, IMHO, much bigger:

1. Sometimes you need both functions, but have access only to one of them. If we combine "Go" and "Refresh", user will loose ability to reload page if he/she occasionally entered something to the address bar.

2. Switching buttons without user intervention may cause user to click wrong button, if it changed just before the click. If you combine "Stop" with "Refresh", user trying to stop a long-loading page could cause it to reload instead. I faced this problem in Opera quite often, so in my opinion it makes "Stop" button just too dangerous to use.

Is UI change really needed?

Is there really a need to combine the refresh/go/stop buttons? Most people have plenty of horizontal space, and having separate single purpose buttons is a lot less confusing.

Also, why ditch the menu bar? I use that all the time (and not just bookmarks). Saving that little bit of vertical space really isn't worth inconvenience. And when IE 7 first came out, I managed to convince several long time IE users to move to Firefox, in good part because Firefox looks more like a standard Windows app than IE 7 (or IE 8) does.

Anyways, it seems odd to me to try and make Firefox looks more like Chrome or IE8. If I wanted a browser that looked like IE8 or Chrome, I would use IE8 or Chrome. Firefox is simply a better browser than either of those two, and should be careful about copying them.

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I have to agree with the above. Although I would like to see the menu items up with the app icon, title and window controls, that is minor. More of concern is the absence of the Stop button. You don't miss it until you click on a link by mistake in Chrome and you find you cannot stop the process. If it is a page that loads slowly, you are just plain stuck until it loads.

Then, of course, there is the complete absence of the bookmarks toolbar. Maybe you don't use it, but I do, all the time.

Even worse is the absence of the searchbar. Again, maybe you don't use it, but the absence of a searchbar is the single thing that made me not wholly abandon Firefox before I discovered No-Script (for some of us, this extension speeds up Firefox navigation enormously). Because Chrome lacks a separate searchbar, you can't switch quickly, say, between Google, Amazon and Wikipedia, for example. Or even Microsoft Support Search. You are stuck with your default search engine and switching is a laborious process. The searchbar is so important to me that I move it to the menu bar, to give it plenty of room.

Chrome and IE do not allow for much of a diversity in how people use those browsers. Firefox gives one much more flexibility. I see no reason to do a me-too UI just to follow Chrome.

--ehume 2115, 2009-07-27 (EDT)

For locating tabs on the side of the browser

Personally, I use the Tree Style Tab plug-in in FF, which allows to : 1. open my tabs on the browser side (in my case, the right side) 2. open and be able to see more tabs than with any top location 3. manually set the tabs width, in order to be able to read more easily their titles 4. accessorily, to group my tabs hierarchically.

I consider that this location takes advantage of today's 16:9 format screens, which allow to gain some useful room vertically while keeping enough room hozizontally. There is no longer any reason to design a browser according to former 4:3 screens. By the way, my Windows' taskbar is also positionned on the side. Also, the look of the browser window seems more tidy (then simplified), since there are less bars at the top of the screen.

In addition to being more convenient and relevant according to screens evolution, that option would be more creative than just copying Google Chrome.

HTH

Philippe

I aggree with that. Most website have a vertical design, and much blank space around the layout. Using this space should be smart. --Antwan 09:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Change and brainstorming is not a matter of copy !

Stop to try to match Chrome design. This is obviously not a model. To release 3 screenshots only for a "woah"-effect is pathetic. I am disapointed by the team which did that, this does not reflect the quality of Mozilla streamline.

- What are the differences beetween 3.7 and 4.0 ?

- Don't you find sketches would be better to focus on usability, instead of a Chrome-copy screenshots? Now this is relayed by many media, and misunderstood.

- Glass everywhere, especially on tabs, is too much.

- Keep focused on OS integration : Do not remove menu bar on XP. All XP application handles menubar. It would look weird to remove it.

- Page/Tool buttons are so IE/Chrome. Again : this is not a model, there are other ways to organize command. Think at it ! --Antwan 09:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)