Platform/Layout/CSS Compatibility: Difference between revisions

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== meetings minutes discussions ==
== meetings minutes discussions ==
* 2011-11-15 Henri Sivonen: [http://hsivonen.iki.fi/vendor-prefixes/ Vendor Prefixes Are Hurting the Web]
** 2011-11-16 Glazblog: [http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2011/11/16/CSS-vendor-prefixes-an-answer-to-Henri-Sivonen CSS vendor prefixes, an answer to Henri Sivonen]
** 2011-11-18 Infrequently Noted / Alex Russell blog: [http://infrequently.org/2011/11/vendor-prefixes-are-a-rousing-success/ Vendor Prefixes Are A Rousing Success]
* 2012-02-06 CSSWG - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0313.html ([http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css/20120206#l-244 IRC log])
* 2012-02-06 CSSWG - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0313.html ([http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css/20120206#l-244 IRC log])
* 2012-02-07  
* 2012-02-07  
** CSSWG - http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css/20120207#l-550 , http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css/20120207#l-1066
** CSSWG - http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css/20120207#l-550 , http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css/20120207#l-1066
** blog post: http://qfox.nl/weblog/244 "Prefixed to death"
** blog post: http://qfox.nl/weblog/244 "Prefixed to death"
** UBelly: [http://www.ubelly.com/2012/02/vendor-prefixes-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/ Vendor prefixes: the good, the bad and the ugly]
* 2012-02-09
** Bruce Lawson blog: [http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2012/on-the-vendor-prefixes-problem/ On the vendor prefixes problem]
** Eric Meyer: [http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/02/09/unfixed/ Unfixed]
** Christian Heilmann blog: [http://christianheilmann.com/2012/02/09/now-vendor-prefixes-have-become-a-problem-want-to-help-fix-it/ Now vendor prefixes have become a problem, want to help fix it?]
** CNET: [http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57373764-92/w3c-co-chair-apple-google-power-causing-open-web-crisis/ W3C co-chair: Apple, Google power causing Open Web crisis]
** Easy Designs Blog: [http://blog.easy-designs.net/archives/2012/02/09/this-must-not-happen/ This Must Not Happen!]
** Glazblog: [http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2012/02/09/CALL-FOR-ACTION:-THE-OPEN-WEB-NEEDS-YOU-NOW CALL FOR ACTION: THE OPEN WEB NEEDS YOU *NOW*]
** Remy Sharp's blog: [http://remysharp.com/2012/02/09/vendor-prefixes-about-to-go-south/ Vendor Prefixes - about to go south]
** Gilles Vandenoostende blog: [http://blog.vandenoostende.com/2012/on-vendor-prefixes/ On Vendor Prefixes]
** Lea Verou: [http://lea.verou.me/2012/02/vendor-prefixes-the-css-wg-and-me/ Vendor prefixes, the CSS WG and me]
** .net: [http://www.netmagazine.com/news/css-vendor-prefixes-threaten-open-web-121757 CSS vendor prefixes threaten open web]
** WebMonkey: [http://www.webmonkey.com/2012/02/webkit-isnt-breaking-the-web-you-are/ WebKit Isn’t Breaking the Web, You Are]
* 2012-02-10
** Robert O'Callahan blog: [http://robert.ocallahan.org/2012/02/alternatives-to-supporting-webkit.html Alternatives To Supporting -webkit Prefixes In Other Engines]
** Web Standards Project: [http://www.webstandards.org/2012/02/09/call-for-action-on-vendor-prefixes/ 
* ...
* ...
* change.org: [http://www.change.org/petitions/microsoft-mozilla-opera-dont-make-webkit-prefixes-a-de-facto-standard Microsoft, Mozilla & Opera: Don’t make -webkit- prefixes a de facto standard]


== FAQ ==
== FAQ ==

Revision as of 01:07, 11 February 2012

CSS vendor-prefix compatibility

problem statement

Sites that have WebKit-specific content and back-up content for everyone else.

-webkit- properties are used so much on mobile content in particular that non-WebKit browsers face a Prisoner's Dilemma problem, analogous to past quirks battles (e.g. 2003-4 era innerHTML and undetected document.all).

data: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708406

more problem details

Blog posts:

goals

The underlying open web goal:

  • Open up the webkit-specific part of the web to other vendors in the same way that we had to be practical about what IE-proprietary or IE-only technologies to support.

straw proposal

  • Consider implementing some -webkit- prefixed properties.

straw proposal downsides

  • Unfortunately for the open web, implementing a -webkit- prefixed property (outside of WebKit) will nearly legitimize (make people assume they'll work forever) the use of -webkit- prefixed properties.
  • ...

possible downside mitigation

  • In the short term we can at least remove pain for web authors and users.
  • In the long term we can ensure the unprefixed properties (in CR drafts) work and encourage authors to switch to them.
  • ...

questions and methodology

  • What are the thresholds (even approximate) for supporting an other-vendor prefixed property vs. not?
  • How should we consider occurrence counts of -webkit- properties?
    • Weighted by PageRank or equivalent?
  • Consider usability of page with/without the feature, not just how often it is used. E.g. tap-highlight-color does not affect the user's ability to use a website the same way text-size-adjust does.

parsing other vendor prefixes approaches

  • parse other vendor prefixed properties only in conjunction with parsing the equivalent unprefixed properties
  • only do it for environments where critically necessary, i.e. mobile not desktop, to encourage use of standard equivalents.

unprefixing principles

  • unprefixing things early (before CR) should be an exceptional case
    • what is the methodology for "exceptional" unprefixing?
  • unprefixing things must be evaluated carefully on case-by-case basis.
  • unprefixing is not something to do routinely just to "go faster" by a few months.
    • put the energy first into contributing and passing test suites instead.
  • ...

meetings minutes discussions

FAQ

  • ...

Data on vendor-specific prefixes

Here's a summary of the data collection and analysis that has been conducted regarding the use of various CSS vendor-specific prefixes.

The current datasets, collected by John Jensen, are:

Initial CSS properties dataset

Q and A

  • how many sites in your mobile Webkit browser crawl use at least one of 'transition', 'transition-timing-function', 'transition-duration', 'transition-property', 'transition-delay' (ignoring prefixes)?

1245 / 30087 = 4.13%

  • how many use them only with -webkit prefixes (no -moz or unprefixed versions of the properties)?

336 / 30087 = 1.12%

  • how many use them only with -webkit prefixes and unprefixed (no -moz versions of the properties)?

365 / 30087 = 1.21%

  • For each CSS prefix for which there are both -moz- and -webkit- prefixes, what percentage of domains host CSS that uses only the -webkit- version and not the -moz- or unprefixed version?
text-size-adjust 510 1.70%
box-shadow 428 1.42%
border-radius 412 1.37%
appearance 379 1.26%
font-smoothing 285 0.95%
tap-highlight-color 250 0.83%
transform 75 0.25%
border-top-left-radius 72 0.24%
border-top-right-radius 72 0.24%
transition-duration 61 0.20%
animation-duration 56 0.19%
animation-name 56 0.19%
border-bottom-left-radius 55 0.18%
border-bottom-right-radius 55 0.18%
transition-property 49 0.16%
animation-iteration-count 45 0.15%
padding-start 45 0.15%
background-size 43 0.14%
animation-timing-function 42 0.14%
box-sizing 42 0.14%

Larger, as-yet-unprocessed datasets

  • Raw data downloading completed in mid-January 2012, using these UAs:
  1. latest Android Native Browser from ICS
  2. latest Mobile Safari UA
  • Includes all HTML, Javascript, CSS files in compressed format
  • Roughly 1.1m files downloaded for each UA
  • CSS file parsing is underway to produce more data