Education/EduCourse/Seminar6ChatLog

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CHAT LOG FROM OPEN PEDAGOGY SESSION

Mozilla/Creative Commons Open Education Course

http://wiki.mozilla.org/Education/EduCourse/Outline

7 May 2009

Panelists:

Jason B Jones

Garin FOns

Chat:

  • from karen to All Participants: We have done class notes on a wiki w/middle school. It's amazing.
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: Epistomology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology
  • from Brian Smith to All Participants: Shocking!
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: I am an English lit major and my teachable is English so I can relate to all of this!
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: I just have a hard time taking notes and paying attention.
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: Well, paying attention to the content.
  • from Bernard Sadaka to All Participants: i never take notes... lol
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: JBJ is talking about assessment "as" learning. Good point and very essential in good teaching.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: wkik a grea tool for assessment AS learning.
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: Talk pages FTW?
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: Important resource about assessment: http://www.curriculum.org/secretariat/april27.shtml
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: Lorna Earl is the leading expert on progressive assessment btw
  • from karen to All Participants: Funny...if I'm not writing, I'm not engaged. (I keep my own personal wikis for notes.) Different learning modalities....
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: wiki even good for documenting a website content before putting it live...
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: agree with Mafe - excellent points\
  • from karen to All Participants: Do you like PBWorks? I was "forced" to use it lately by a school but I like Wikispaces much better?
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: I use PB wiki
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: I didn't like the design of wikispaces
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: and BTW - many of my students HATED using the wiki.
  • from karen to All Participants: PBWorks = PBWiki
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: The closest to this I use wikis for is during game projects.
  • from Philipp Schmidt to All Participants: we'll get back to questions - don't let them go!!!
  • from karen to All Participants: Melanie, was this univ lvl?
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: teachers seem to like wikis more than students
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: I chose PBworks (Was PbWiki) because I needed it to be super easy!
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: Karen: post graduate college course on web magazines
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: they blogged bookmarked and used wiki for project management
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: @melanie there's a learning curve to wikis--I've had a lot of students adopt the assignment.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: they didn't like the interface.
  • from karen to All Participants: I find Wikispaces super easy? (I teach wiki workshops for teachers + have tried many. Mediawiki is too hard for most folks.)
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: yes, JBJ they do finally adopt. But those who don't like webby stuff remain skeptical. that's a bigger issue though.
  • from karen to All Participants: I don't like PBWorks not having a backup feature in the free version...scary
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: yes - I want my replies to be read by all
  • from Brian Smith to All Participants: Anyone else's audio a little choppy?
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: @karen it's true . . . I pay ~$10USD/month for backup, a variety of other features.
  • from karen to All Participants: http://jbj.pbworks.com/CCSUpresentation
  • from karen to All Participants: @jbj I'm trying to get those who insist on using it to pay for this.
  • from karen to All Participants: @brian yes a little but not bad
  • from Philipp Schmidt to All Participants: some people are reporting choppy audio (for once, mine is fine)
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: I also have a tiny bit of chopiness.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: sound is good unless you're running other apps
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: agree about "transmission" model of learning
  • from karen to All Participants: Any good scientific research refs on participative learning (especially for K-12)?
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: as freire calls it the "banking" model
  • from karen to All Participants: (I'm grant writing right now :)
  • from karen to All Participants: Link for Garin's OER site?
  • from Joss Winn to All Participants: I'm maintaining a 'use of wikis in education' bibliography here: http://learninglab.lincoln.ac.uk/wiki/Wiki-tivities_bibliography Feel free to add to it! :-)
  • from Philipp Schmidt to All Participants: karen: i have put a few in diigo
  • from karen to All Participants: @Joss Thx.
  • from Joss Winn to All Participants: I'd like to compile a bibliography for blogs, if you have any suggestions: http://learninglab.lincoln.ac.uk/wiki/Bibliography:_The_use_of_blogs_in_education
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: https://open.umich.edu/wiki/OER_Platform
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: Yep.
  • from Garin Fons to All Participants: here is a link to the dScribe wiki: https://open.umich.edu/wiki
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: https://open.umich.edu/
  • from Garin Fons to All Participants: our OER site is here: https://open.umich.edu/education
  • from karen to All Participants: Cultural problems are why ed tech and open ed isn't reaching critical mass.
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: When I have students blog, I frequently have them play a role--that is, in a game: http://www.jbj.wordherders.net/2008/06/16/teaching-literature-with-ivanhoe/
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: They feel less vulnerable in that context.
  • from Elena to All Participants: JBJ, great idea!
  • from karen to All Participants: Well at least not wanting to participate online is not a problem we have in K-12 (except w/teachers of course :)
  • from Brian Smith to All Participants: @Jason - I get much better results when I have the kids write in role
  • from Philipp Schmidt to All Participants: i have a list of questions, but will hold them for a moment. if you want to comment or ask sometimes, go ahead
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: @Melanie -- great point about access. This summer I'm experimenting with class that's lending everyone iPod
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: . . . Touches.
  • from Nate O to All Participants: Q: I like the model of students building the class's courseware package as they engage in the class. This may pose the problem that students in future iterations of classes shouldn't exactly be posed with recreating the same material... but might provide teachers opportunities to extend class as their research develops. Any thoughts? (whoops sent before just to "attendees")
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: good point about ownership - though this really needs to be scaffolded otherwise they resent it
  • from Michael Rowe to All Participants: Q: My final year physio students just finished a blogging assignment where they posted their reflections on ethical issues in health, and then were required to comment on the posts of others. Posts were anonymous, which encouraged honest reflection. I'm having difficulty finding a model for assessment that takes into account the different approach to learning that blogging entails. Anyone have any suggestions?
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: keep in mind: if we want to introduce such proactive learning we need to remember that our entire culture cultivates just the opposite: passive consumption.
  • from karen to All Participants: Textbooks promote passive consumption.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: Michael Rowe: they like anonymity/handles for blogs - it's less "high stakes" ...
  • from Michael Rowe to All Participants: Yes, that's why I set it up that way
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: JBJ: you and I need to talk about developing an app! :)
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: pb wiki - me too
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: Thinking about this I'm reminded about a lesson I've learned about web 2.0. It takes constant effort and time, like keeping up on anything else.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: thanks JB!
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: maybe a blog visualisation?
  • from karen to All Participants: @Melanie Did you see this https://wiki.mozilla.org/EduFeedr_Blueprint ? It talks about some of these issues.
  • from Michael Rowe to All Participants: How do you assign a grade to the concept of engagement?
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: yeah we're goign to do that JBJ
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: Yes on feedback.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: mic is muted already
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: yes, we do a PEER eval as well!
  • from Chris Campbell to All Participants: @melanie I am so looking forward to the plugin for assessment, and peer eval too!
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: 1)self evaluation 2) peer evaluatinon 3) instructor eval
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: Peer evaluation's useful; you can also track edits on a wiki
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: Chris; If you've ever used the Diigo bookmarking tool I think it would be a bit like that
  • from Chris Campbell to All Participants: @melanie The cycle of learning
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: Jim Groom and myself have also been talking about this one conversation thing.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: instead, it would have a list of criteria. And go directly to the student.
  • from Joss Winn to All Participants: Trouble with developing Firefox plugins for open education is that many institutions only supply IE on the corporate desktop.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: no kidding jOss!
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: a big part of alll of this for us is advocacy
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: True, although at my school FireFox 3 / IE 8 has been a tipping point in moving to Firefox.
  • from Brian Smith to All Participants: have fun folks - back to the grind for me - keep me knformed on all these assessment plugins, I am really interested
  • from karen to All Participants: @Joss IE is definitely a barrier I've run into
  • from Joss Winn to All Participants: Our uni has *just* started providing Firefox as a virtual application - streamed to the corporate desktop rather than being integral to it.
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: I have a question for Garin how the feedback with dscribed with students and teachers...
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: oh i think it's similar to PS question
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: good point - JBJ - their opinions can change a lot over the course to after thecourse.
  • from Philipp Schmidt to All Participants: audio choppy for me ...
  • from Joss Winn to All Participants: audio is really breaking up for me...
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: sounds is choppy...
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: me too
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: me too
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: same here
  • from Nate O to All Participants: Using the collaborative tools with other students is addicting.. and pretty easy to carry to other courses with a Google Doc or something to share notes between any number of students 2-60
  • from Garin Fons to All Participants: sorry about that.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: sorry - had my mic turned off on my headset but not the webex. apologies
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: I've done it in normal classes.
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: that would be a great challenge in the Philippine educational setting where in teachers are not open to this kind f pedagogy ...a little bit of challenge...to really get this starting....is their any similar things that enaybody here encountered this with teachers....
  • from karen to All Participants: Students taking over the class does happen. It's one of hte things that makes teachers nervous about all this.
  • from Philipp Schmidt to All Participants: how do they feel about it after it has happened - still nervous, or they realise it's fun
  • from karen to All Participants: @Mafe Same in US.... teachers want control not chaos and this is somewhat antithetical to participatory learning
  • from Bernard Sadaka to All Participants: guys i have to go, will here from me...
  • from Bernard Sadaka to All Participants: bye
  • from Bernard Sadaka to All Participants: hear*
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: my students hated Wiki during the course and now they're all using them for project planning ;)
  • from karen to All Participants: @Philipp Depends on hte teacher. Some opt out when this happens.
  • from karen to All Participants: lost audio
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: Howard Rheingold also said that his students had a similar response; "why are we doing this. this is useless" then after the course "your course was so important!"
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: bye Bernard...
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: that would be great @karen
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: student: regular comment from students "I'm overwhelmed!"
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: same in Howard's courses\
  • from Chris Campbell to All Participants: the challenge of wild success and lots of participation
  • from Garin Fons to All Participants: sorry about the audio as a follow up to Phillip's question: 1. students see themselves as ambassadors of open - by asking the question: "How can I and others make use of this material?" they influence their faculty and student colleagues to really make an effort to share. This is something many ask in all their classes and as they create assignments.
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: I've had a few teachers that used more open models, such as proposing personal projects and having students prepare lessons/presentations on topics to teach the other students. Another example was a teacher adapting the howework structure to acomidate my pequliarities.
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: I think it's also ok to say that no one keeps up with *everything* People have to make choices about what to skim and what to engage more deeply.
  • from Chris Campbell to All Participants: @karen - with that course, the journey was the reward?
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: JBJ - exactly.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: excellent points Karen!
  • from Michael Rowe to All Participants: @All...how do you assign a quantitative value (i.e. grade) to a qualitative concept (i.e. engagement)?
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: MR: you ask the students to comment on each other's blogs
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: and then assess that -
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: provide them with criteria as well. I.e., ask a question relate to theblog post etc. Not just "great post!"
  • from Joss Winn to All Participants: I've been looking at machine tags recently as a way to tag and classify resources. I wonder whether the OER community might adopt a formal method of using machine tags for OER. http://www.flickr.com/help/tags/#613430
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: @Michael Rowe -- I don't grade "engagement" on its own. Like Melanie says, you can grade participation, but you can also see how engagement manifests itself in more conventional assignments.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: Philipp - I have a response to this question.
  • from Nate O to All Participants: RE: "I think it's also ok to say that no one keeps up with *everything* People have to make choices about what to skim and what to engage more deeply." ... teachers seem to try to ignore this as hard as they can.. every class expects you to do all the reading..
  • from karen to All Participants: @Chris Yes, the journey was reward. Many of us did go to do projects on our own as well.
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: @melanie a generated auto comment reply comment like "great blog" :) just like a auto email reply...:)
  • from karen to All Participants: You have to be a good multi-tasker and have huge bandwidth to facilitate this kind of instruction...and this isn't everyone!
  • from Nate O to All Participants: http://twitter.com/hrheingold
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: @Nate O: But there's reading and reading. I teach multiple 1000 page novels in the same course, so we spend a fair amount of time on "how can I read this? How can I recognize what's important and what's not?"
  • from karen to All Participants: One of the things we ended up doing in Wiley's class was to make a subset of the RSS feed of people who were really active and engaged int he course.
  • from Nate O to All Participants: Thanks, Jason.
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: How many 1000 page novels in how long? Is there any more reading?
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: JBJ - that would be a great resource to apply to 2.0. Nice.
  • from karen to All Participants: One result of Wiley's course for me is that now I can hardly read anything meaningful without blogging about it
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: "how to skim" how to focus attention on specific objectives/goals themes.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: JBJ: that's where we can allow for their self directed learning. To have them focus their inquiry on an area of interest to them.
  • from Michael Rowe to All Participants: yes, thanks philip
  • from karen to All Participants: I worry that all of htis is making younger people *only* know how to skim and not to read and reflect deeply
  • from karen to All Participants: sure
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: @karen -- Well, but you have to give them opportunities to read deeply, too!!
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: Can't do either/or.
  • from Chris Campbell to All Participants: @karen - depth and reflection can be very important
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: Karen: the point is to have them focus their attention on specific things so they can go DEEP
  • from Nate O to All Participants: Has anybody had experience teaching or taking a course where it was a 2nd iteration of a previous OCW course? How did that work out?
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: I shouldn't have used the word "skim" thoughthis applies in relatino to RSS reader subs
  • from Chris Campbell to All Participants: focus on the important things, not neccessarily to skip things, but to put their resources to a more effective use
  • from Chris Campbell to All Participants: maybe it's helping people identify potentially interesting doorways to go through
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: skimming is skills right?...so it's just part of learner style
  • from Philipp Schmidt to All Participants: Has anybody had experience teaching or taking a course where it was a 2nd iteration of a previous OCW course? How did that work out?
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: yes Chris
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: I generally refuse to "skim", as I find it pointless. If it's worth the time, it's worth actually reading.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: Steve: it relates to keeping up with RSS subs, not engaging course materials.
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: thank *you*, Philipp!
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: :)
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: yes, thank you for great moderation!
  • from karen to All Participants: It would be interesting to scaffold skimming vs. deep reading with younger students
  • from Chris Campbell to All Participants: thanks everyone, this was really interesting and valuable
  • from Mafe Mago to All Participants: Thanks JBJ and Garin...
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: You mean selecting what materials to read?
  • from karen to All Participants: @Chris Doorways are a good analogy
  • from karen to All Participants: Wiley's coures has a 2nd iteration getting ready to start but I haven't looked at it much
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: Course Assesment of another variety.
  • from Garin Fons to All Participants: I apologize about my audio today! I would have loved to participate in more depth around some of the questions, but it seemed like the choppiness would have prevented that. thanks for your time and please follow up with any questions: garin@umich.edu
  • from karen to All Participants: @Steven Interesting.... not enough hours in the day for me for that
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: My contacts: jason.b.jones@gmail.com / twitter: jbj
  • from karen to All Participants: This was a great session. Thanks all.
  • from Mark Surman to All Participants: Thanks to all!
  • from Mark Surman to All Participants: REally enjoyed this one!
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: @Karen I'm used to telling teachers I didn't do the homework and reading while still doing fairly well.
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: thanks Philipp!
  • from Chris Campbell to All Participants: thanks Philipp!
  • from karen to All Participants: Scaffolding - Taking the "flood" and working together thru how to identify doorways etc....
  • from Guillermo Movia to All Participants: thanks
  • from Frank Hecker to All Participants: Thanks all!
  • from Nate O to All Participants: thanks
  • from Garin Fons to All Participants: thanks phillip and all!
  • from melanie mcbride to All Participants: yes Karen exactly
  • from Joss Winn to All Participants: thank you. bye
  • from Chris Campbell to All Participants: bye everyone
  • from Michael Rowe to All Participants: cheers all, thanks for a great session
  • from Jason B. Jones to All Participants: bye!
  • from Steven Egan to All Participants: Later.
  • from Laura Marotias to All Participants: bye! And thanks everybody for the interesting meeting!