Compatibility/Meetings/2018-06-work-week: Difference between revisions

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work week team meeting
(→‎Friday 15: add meeting with seceng)
(work week team meeting)
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=== Regrets ===
=== Regrets ===
none.


== Agenda ==
== Minutes ==
Scribed by Everyone!


=== 4.1 Dealing with Diagnosis ( 🐝 ) ===
* '''mike''': How do we get better, faster? it's a topic that will take a bit of time. We could discuss it on Friday. I want to be constructive in that discussions.
* '''dennis''': It was difficult. I didn't spend enough time on it. GoFaster took priority with a lot of sollicitations from the rest of Mozilla.
* '''mike''': There is a lot of interests at Mozilla for Webcompat GoFaster.
* '''dennis''': A lot of time was spent on communications, more than coding.
* '''tom''': Some of the stuff I was doing was similar to the ones of dennis. Juggling with time was hard. Sometimes you get a ping which focuses my attention for the addons which divert from other tasks.
* '''mike''': There is a lot of unexpected work coming in on a regular basis.
* '''tom''': I would usually try to not multitask in a day.
* '''karl''': To not have challenges, I decided to spend Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday on diagnosis. Except, if there was a sec issue, or something very urgent or breaking webcompat.com. I focused Thurs on webcompat.com, and Friday was usually a mix of diagnosis and development. The challenge I had was when pinging others in the team, and not get responses in a timely manner. This being on hold meant not being able to conclude a diagnosis.
* '''mike''': One of my previous managers was super tough on time. Maybe we could have a policy in the team, that we should reply on 48h.
* '''adam''': …
* '''mike''': we will have labels that will make it easier to track these.
* '''sergiu''': Could we have a notification system?
* '''mike''': we could have a bot.
* '''adam''': if there's an important issue, i don't feel bad sending a personal ping saying this is important.
* '''mike''': I did this time to time.
* '''tom''': would it be worth adding a needinfo-now? and needinfo?
* '''karl''': the more we add process, the more it means things aren't working.
* '''adam''': Depending on the backlog, if you think it will take forever, we can pro-actively contact someone from the site before the diagnosis is finished.
* '''mike''': we need to do a better job at planning for unpredictable jobs coming in between projects. The diagnosis work is important. The faster we do this, we can channel
* '''karl''': we solved the issue we had with needstriage, where it was taking a long time to traige bugs. now the diagnosis is having the same issue. speed is something important. the circumstances of the page might change quickly, and we might lose the bug (but it still exists). a lot of bugs become invalid.
* '''dennis''': Some issues are hard because they might take two days.
* '''tom''': As a policy I could spend only 2 hours and come back to it later, if I don't manage to find anything I would contact someone else, or see if we can reach out the site.
* '''mike''': if it's YouTube we should take the time.
* '''dennis''': The daily way of working like Karl would not work well for me.
* '''mike''': we should recognize that everyone has a different way of organizing. We could have dashboards (private) for managing time.
* '''karl''': my goals it that we find a place where we work as a team. not individual people working on diagnosis. we have each others back and take out the trash together.
=== 4.2 browser/os/formfactor labeling ( 🐝 ) ===
* '''mike''': 5 minutes topics?
* '''everyone''': no.
* '''karl''': (quieting writing on whiteboard)
* '''dennis''': complaining that just want to look at Firefox desktop or mobile issues, we have many different labels that can be assigned due to dynamic labeling.
* '''dennis''': I have a list of the labels for each now, but it's a pain
* '''karl''': I made a temporary fix to this. There is a list of browsers and if it doesn't match in the list it goes to 'browser-fixme' label. We still need to clean up the previous labels, will write a script to pass all the bugs and relabel
* {{todo|karl to '''implement webhook labeling for browser-foo & browser-fixme, os-{windows,macos,linux,android,ios}, form-{mobile,desktop,tablet}, v''' before '''ersion-nnn'''}}
* {{todo|karl to '''create a script for cleaning up the old web''' before '''compat.com'''}}
=== 4.3 Needinfo / webcompat ping queue lag ( 🐝 ) ===
'''mike (dad): There have been instances where we have not been very useful in answering the notifications. bugzilla is cool for needinfo. web-bugs on GitHub doesn't have this state. Since we are a small team, we could have needinfo-nickname for each of us.'''
* '''oana''': what about dashboard
* '''karl''': we each have an activity page we could have a list of all your needinfos
* {{todo|karl to '''create needinfo labels for everyone active on th''' before '''e project.'''}}
=== 4.4 One Thousand Paper Cuts of Webcompat.com (karl) ===
* '''karl''': message is next quarter we should prioritize the minor issues with the UI that make it easier to work with
* '''mike''': we should all sit down and review the open issues on the UI.
* {{todo|mike to '''drive the discussion about UI issues with webcompat.com during breakfast tomorrow (Friday 15, June, Meeting in the Left-Back corner of the room!) at 8:''' before '''30-9:00am.'''}}
=== 4.5 Webcompat To Bugzilla (karl) ===
* '''karl''': related to using the webcompat.com UI, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/webcompat-to-bugzilla/
* '''karl''': i don't know if you know about this addon, it's working. on the bottom right you have a go to webcompat.com link.
* '''karl''': just this helps a lot to use webcompat.com. also, when you're there it provides features for creating new bugs in bugzilla.
* '''karl''': you can also close as a duplicate issue.
* '''sergiu''': can we replace radios with checkboxes?
* '''karl''': right now it's eric who is maintaining this in his personal github. is this OK?
* '''mike''': i think we could ask him to move it to webcompat (and then mike immediately convinced himself this is a bad idea)
* {{todo|Karl to '''ping mdtsai about the all hands discussion about the addon - [DONE-2''' before '''018-06-14]'''}}
=== 4.6 Etherpad at risk (karl) ===
* '''karl''': Etherpad is unsupported. They want to kill it. Unmaintained. We need to find a place for our scribings / agendas.
* '''mike''': options?
* '''karl''': Other etherpads exist. Google Docs (but i'm not a big fan).
* '''kate''': I've heard of firepad.
* '''karl''': another option is scribing from irc.
* '''mike''': a new channel or existing?
* '''karl''': the scribing is easy. the agenda is more complicated.
* '''karl''': we have time, let's start thinking about transition.
* {{todo|karl to '''investigate options for live editing and agenda items for''' before ''' meetings.'''}}
=== 4.7 WebCompat.com next (karl) ===
* '''mike''': this is a planning session, longer than 5 minutes
=== 4.8 Lessons of Heroku as a hosting platform (karl) ===
* '''karl''': Probably something to discuss with mike on hosting/devops discussions for our projects. In fact anyone which has a hosted project. Right now webcompat-metrics-server is on heroku, and it is both practical and painful. Pros: You can deploy with just a merged pull request (testing included). Cons: There's no filesystem, only one choice of DB. No configuration for HTTP caching, gzipping.
=== 4.9 Dashboard check-in and coordination ( 🐝 ) ===
* '''mike''': summary: adam, kate, karl and guillaume are working on dashboards and i want to have a discussion about how we can coordinate the work.
=== 4.10 Module for WebCompat? ( 🐝 ) ===
* '''mike''': see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Modules for an introduction what Modules are and what this means for project governance
* '''mike''': essentially, it is a way to "decentralize" power and have dedicated responsibilities.
* '''mike''': the question is: does this kind of thing make sense for the webcompat project?
* '''karl''': I think we have had cases in the past where it was difficult to make a decision, or where the dicision took longer than it should have. it could be easier if we'd have dedicated people responsible for parts of the project.
* '''mike''': what you are describing sounds like there sometimes are situations where a decision lacks "an owner"
* '''karl''': and people didn't feel comfortable sharing concerns, and ultimately, some topics got back to mike's desk
* '''mike''': let's say we designate Dennis as the module owner for GoFaster, we should be very liberal of encouraging that. we should be supporting to someone who wants to take over responsibility, and make decisions if needed.
* '''dennis''': isn't this kind of what we do to some extent? blipz, gofaster, etc?
* '''kate''': it might be, but i don't know who these people are.
* '''karl''': maybe owner is a strong term. maybe we have a wiki page that lists who these stewards are.
* '''karl''': for example right now, i would say triage is no longer adam and karl, it's oana and sergiu.
* '''oana''': should it be a good thing to have everyone on a page to list who to contact for idea/problems/
* '''sergiu''': table of names/ responsibilities/ownerships.
* '''tom''': we could also just call it "peers", to stay at the Firefox terminology
* '''mike''': so, it looks like we generally think this is a good idea.
* '''mike''': there might be a need for actual mozilla modules some time in the future.
* {{todo|karl to '''ping everyone to draft a page with what they think the responsibility l''' before '''ooks like.'''}}
=== 4.11 IRL OKR Check-in (mike) ===
* '''https''': //github.com/mozilla/webcompat-team-okrs/projects/1
* '''mike''': Done wooohoo.
=== 4.12 Webcompat.com survival 101 (karl) ===
* '''mike''': we were discussing about doing an archive static (karl's idea?) of old pages.
* '''adam''': that seems like a good idea. It could be an issue for old bugs getting reopened.
* '''karl''': we can lock the bug and put a message that we should open a new bug.
* '''mike''': That sounds like an interesting projects. You can close a bug and leave a message.
* {{todo|karl to '''draft a plan on how we could do static archives of''' before '''old pages.'''}}
* '''RESOLUTION''': Interesting project and we can do it during a work week in a (not immediate) future.
=== 4.13 Team Mission Statement (mike) ===
* '''mike''': not a 5min discussion. We should have probably a document which document why webcompat team exists. It would be a guiding for individuals and others outside of the team.
=== 4.14 What is Webcompat? (karl) ===
* '''karl''': same thing as above, but for each of us to share what webcompat means to each of us and share
* '''mike''': should do this before we leave
* '''karl''': i want everyone to tell us what webcompat is for them!
* '''adam''': "what isn't webcompat?" - "website that works on one browser but not another"
* '''adam''': the pain points or the price we have to pay for not having a browser monoculture.
* '''dennis''': i like the mozilla manifesto way of defining the internet as a global public resource that should be open and accessible to all, regardless of choices (browser, countries, device).
* '''dennis''': webcompat is obviously a problem because it prevents them from doing that. it's an important component to this idea.
* '''tom''': preventing bad monoculture is the ultimate goal. to me, it's figuring out who is doing things right and wrong together on the web. and fixing that, so that everyone is right.
* '''oana''': i agree with others. it's a link between users and site owners, and help people who are having problems on the web.
* '''sergiu''': as an idea, it's the last thing that should disappear from the web. it should be eternal. related to our project, it's a place where others come to vent because something doesn't work for them. and a place for non-technical people can come and log bugs for the web. it would be nice for webcompat.com in the future to be a place where webpages owners could come and see what their issues are.
* '''kate''': i like the idea of there being diversity, and there being choices for browsers and for developers. i agree with much of what has been said. diversity of users, developers, environments.
* '''karl''': it should not exist. if the world was perfect, the work should not need to exist. interop should be by default. the fact that we need to solve these issues. the mission of webcompat is to fix the lack of interop on the web. i don't care that the webcompat team is part of mozilla. i'm happy to be here. but i think it should be across companies. the web is important. it's my DNA.
* '''mike''': agrees with everything. interop between all web things: protocols, browsers, rendering...
* '''mike''': WebCompat is a superset of interop: it's not just technical issues, but also social discussions and business decisions.
* '''mike''': WebCompat is trying to solve all those issues, so websites work for people. agrees that there are parts of the mozilla manifesto that matches what we do.
* '''mike''': nothing you work on to "win", because the success is hard to measure.
* '''karl''': "When you have a health crisis in a country, there are two solutions: you can educate people and change their behaviour, having policies for sewage systems, ...; at the same time, you also need emergency services, which, in the mean time, solve issues for sick people"
* '''karl''': WebCompat is the "emergency services" part
* '''adam''': WebCompat is both, we spend time fixing the core problems, but we also work on fixing the actual issues.
* '''tom''': So we are the first responders for broken websites? :)
* '''mike''': Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes we come back to a crash scene later and investigate. And sometimes, we do proactive things.
=== 4.15 Experimental Diagnosis Add-on (tom) ===
* '''mike''': we've got a lightning talk about this!
* '''tom''': and just to reiterate: if you'd like another demo, or have questions, ping me. Or file issues on GitHub. https://github.com/webcompat/tinker-tester-developer-spy
* '''tom''': This is something we'd like to grow out of our team soon, so if you have feedback this quarter, this would be cool
* '''karl''': right now, if you want to use it, you have to build it yourself...
* '''tom''': I'm on the edge of releasing it and uploading it to AMO, should be done within weeks.
* '''https''': //github.com/webcompat/tinker-tester-developer-spy
=== 4.16 Triage with Karl (Sergiu & Oana) ===
* '''karl''': this is a group excersise to Triage with me. Whenever we have time, we can do this.
* '''karl''': DONE. Discussed about debuggers, flexbox, fonts, etc.
=== 4.16bis Accounts for testing websites. ( 🐝 ) ===
* '''oana''': sometimes we need an account.
* '''mike''': banks it's practically impossible apart of a friend of a friend.
* '''sergiu''': banks, university, govs.
* '''mike''': for paid accounts, we should be able to do it.
* '''adam''': Often I close this type of issues. It's hard to make contact to begin with, and even harder to get an account.
* '''mike''': so if we do not have a ton of information to begin with, it's probably not worth the effort. It can be very difficult. Example?
* '''sergiu''': NYTimes.
* '''oana''': once we have an account, we can deeply test the full site in addition of the issue.
* '''kate''': Should paid sites be more willing to fix their sites?
* '''mike''': They should… (laughs)
* '''RESOLUTION''': adam is the person to go for knowing if we can get a paid account for testing a specific website.
=== 4.17 Workshop with Mike and Ola (Sergiu & Oana) ===
* '''mike''': This is about building webcompat.com?
* '''sergiu_oana''': yes.
* '''oana''': still not working on windows.
=== 4.18 Pre-triage Experiment with the crowd (Sergiu & Oana) ===
* '''oana''': we're still waiting, will start after all-hands.
* '''mike''': Do we think it is a good idea?
* '''oana''': yes.
* '''mike''': we should think on how to graduate this from prototype to a working process.
* '''oana''': maybe a new section on webcompat.com called pre-triage?
* '''mike''': that could be interesting.
* '''karl''': what about Oana and Sergiu coming back with a proposal and we discuss further
* {{todo|oana to '''come up with a proposal for doing pre-triage (c''' before '''c: sergiu)'''}}
=== 4.19 New Firefox for Android – Fenix version (Sergiu & Oana) ===
* '''sergiu''': How our job will be impacted by this project.
* '''mike''': this is not a 5min discussion. It will take time. We should take time today to discuss with Chris Peterson (Product Manager for Gecko View).
* '''sergiu''': We should resume local testing for Fenix specically.
* '''oana''': We could prioritize USA.
* '''mike''': and maybe Germany.
* {{todo|mike to '''introduce oana/sergiu to Chris''' before ''' Peterson.'''}}
=== 4.20 Webcompat Email bugs (adam_s) ===
* '''adam''': do we care? there was a bug that came thru via Mike Kaply that he received from a restaurant. and there was an interop issue in gmail in firefox.
* '''dennis''': gmail does lots of scary things.
* '''tom''': it seems like this was an interop issue.
* '''mike''': i think we should care if things come to us.
* '''adam''': how should we deal with reporting issues?
* '''mike''': I guess we should care. Just let's be careful about privacy issues.
* '''karl''': yes, and the number is so low that might not be an issue. Let's deal with it on case by case.
* '''RESOLUTION''': We will care on case by case basis as long there is not a huge number.
=== 4.21 WebCompat Team Dinner ( 🐝 ) ===
* '''mike''': great success.
=== 4.22 Contributors Involvement ( 🐝 ) ===
* '''mike''': we should have some way to show appreciation of our contributors efforts. maybe a care package, public mentions, ...
* '''karl''': maybe we need something more personal, and not just stickers or a tshirt. maybe something like the Open Innovations notebooks, a drinking bottle, ...
* '''mike''': we also should always try to have people invited to All Hands, and should always be thinking about recognizing the work they do
* '''karl''': I'd love if we'd find something that is nice to send to them.
=== WebCompat Policy discussion ( 🐝 ) ===
Meta-bug for tracking prefixed properties: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=775235 Definition of WebCompat is still unclear to some people, we need to come up with Metrics or something to define an actual goal and measure success Something like WPT? Example of the reations to removing something that we thought was safe to remove: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=765645
=== Kate's awesome "Next Bug" Application ( 🐝 ) ===
'''Demo from Kate.'''
* https://nbo.herokuapp.com/nbo
* '''Source''': https://github.com/laghee/next-bug-oracle




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